My mom has signs of dementia and lives alone in another city (We're just now starting to work on addressing that). She's never been very competent with finances--neither have I to be honest--but in recent years she's been making unsound decisions and not prioritizing bills and needs. Her only income is social security and she is always behind on bills, or ignores some, or forgets, etc. I don't WANT to be involved, as it's part of her ever-diminishing independence, and by extension mine as well, but I am also unable to continually bail her out when she runs out of money because she isn't spending it on priorities. I don't think she would allow a full FPOA (she trusts shady predatory loan companies more than she does me), but maybe I can "trick" her into a setup in which I semi-control her money for her using a joint account? Any thoughts? Thank you! Sorry for the rant.
It would be better to get the POA. If not in place if she becomes incapacitated, without POA in place, the state may be in a position that they would take emergency guardianship and conservatorship to take care of her and her money. This would take all control away from her and her family. Which would she rather? Get her an appointment with an elder law attorney, they would be able to tell her some horror stories of what happened to people that did not have the documents in place.
Why just financial POA. Does someone already have her health POA? That is just as important.
I'm helping out an elderly couple, he's 90 years old having Alzheimer's, his wife is 85 with acute Parkinson's. I've being friends with them for 32 years. They have a daughter who can't be responsible for them. She's a little slow comprehending her parents situations even though she's 58 years old. Since they didn't have any other relative willing to be responsible for them when they asked me if they could grant me a Durable Power of Attorney. I accepted it after seeing how they lived alone and neglected. Immediately with my husband's help I arranged to have them moved into a retirement home with assisted living. Social Services was there to guide me. The DPOA gives me access to decide how to manage their money. M&T Bank after verifying the legality of the DPOA allowed to have my name written with their names on their accounts as their POA. I can transfer money form their savings accounts, pay bills with checks printed along with my name along with their as their POA. After talking to Social Security, they advised me to go into a branch in person and have my name add to theirs as their POA,, as their contact for whatever changes or information I need to have or make. Perhaps the first thing you can do it's to have your mother agree to grant you a "Durable Power of Attorney" As I understand a DPOA in accordance with the grantor- s they can pick and choose the rights they wished to grant. It's 12 pages long. Signed and sealed by a Notary Public and a Lawyer you're set to help your mother. The only problem I have now it's to see how hard it's for them to give up being in control of everything specially their money. They want to know every detail of what I'm doing. It's their right to do so, but It's driving crazy since the gentleman forgets the second I told him and the wife hardly understand how things are done or need to be done (Her husband was in absolute control of their money and all other affairs.) I spend lots of time being a "broken record" and It's wearing me out. I spoke to a lawyer and he advised to let them know somehow, having them to understand that we had reached a point to decide to grant voluntarily a full guardianship thru the DPOA or have the court decide for them, making them understand that whoever gets it from then on this person will decide for their best interests without consulting them for everything and every step it's done to help them. Perhaps you can start with the DPOA convincing your mother that it's necessary for you to pay her bills etc. etc. She may go for it and help you... I know how hard it can be. I wish you good luck.
You may want to consider speaking to a lawyer about any liability you might incur if you are a joint owner of her account; if you are not her POA. One suggestion, the bank may allow you to have signature authority only and that would still keep your mom as sole owner of the account. However, your mom will have to give her signed permission, in person, at the bank. But again, I’d suggest seeing an attorney. Many allow a 30 minute free consultation.
I sympathize w/you & your mom going through this difficult experience. So many people here are great advice & moral support & I hope you come back often. Best wishes to you & yours.
1. You can download all of the poa forms on the state website.
www.azag.gov/seniors/life-care-planning
Only one of the forms needs a notary and the DNR needs a medical professional''s signature. No lawyer needed.
Fill out all the forms and make several copies and scan them into your computer. I even made small copies I carried with me.
2. Super easy to become a signer on her account. I called the branch where my mom had gone into a lot (when she still could) and the wonderful banker met us in the parking lot on the way home from rehab from a broken hip so mom didn't have to get out of the car. The banker can also notarize the general durable poa paperwork. Checks still remained the same with just her name. Be sure to get a debit card in your name..but on her account. This is all done on the same paperwork. Set up an online account and choose the option of no mailed account info to her. Pay as many bills as you can online. Change the addresses to you.
You will need poa to even talk to her insurance company, etc.
Good luck to you. Let me know if I can help any more. Arizona has a lot of resources including house call doctors and palliative care that included a social worker therapist. It's easier to get this taken care of now...harder later.
Best of luck finding a solution that works for you both.
To the OP: It is going to be hard to get DPOA, let alone any kind of guardianship, because your mom is relatively young and hasn’t been diagnosed with any sort of memory loss condition. What you might be able to do, though, is ask her to sign a conditional DPOA, I’m not sure if that’s the right name for it. It would basically grant you all the powers of DPOA “in the event of” something happening to her ability to function and make decisions. I would advise getting both medical and financial DPOA in this conditional manner. That would set her mind at ease that she can trust you aren’t trying to take things over prematurely. Good luck!
Either that or declaring her incompetent and going thru other measures.
I Pay all of the normal bills that I have always have paid, food shelter, utilities, etc.
As guardian I only take money from her checking account for items that are only for her, like clothing, diapers, unexpected medical, etc.Her saving is frozen as far as withdrawals go.
The Judge allows me to with draw up to $250 a month for her expenses, if needed.
Should there be an expense beyond the $250 I need court approval and the bank will only allow me to with draw money from savings if I present an invoice. The bank says it will them cut a cashiers check for the exact amount of the invoice to the billing company.
If she had recurring monthly bills I could set set up automatic payments for those and still be safe. Fortunately none of those exist, save for dental insurance which I must have withdrawn from my retirement check.
All of this was done to protect both of us and so far it is working. I do not charge her account for my time.
All of this even worked this year with the IRS after I file their form for guardianship.
Just some ideas you might be able to use.
You can private message me if you want, I have #s and such I would be happy to share.
If she is deemed incompetent, you would not be able to secure any kind of POA. However if she is deemed incompetent, you CAN apply to be representative payee by SS. As I have told others, SS does NOT accept any kind of POA. It requires applying for this position, and if approved a special account must be set up with you as rep payee for your mother, and only her SS can be in the account and only YOU can access this account. It does require keeping good records and reporting at least yearly how those funds are used (they have specific rules about how the funds are to be used - none can be used for you.)
I would recommend documenting all the issues she has with finances (or getting medical confirmation of mental incompetence) and then/meanwhile making an appointment with your local SS office (calling the main 800 number can result in a long wait and in the end the only way to apply is with a face-to-face meeting.) Although incompetence can more likely assure being approved, documenting inability to manage the SS funds CAN be used to determine whether she needs someone to oversee her SS benefits, it just might take them a little longer to do the research.
Although you are listed as this special account "owner" you will in NO WAY be responsible for any unpaid debts. You will merely be managing the funds to pay for housing, food and care for your mom. NO ONE can make YOU pay any outstanding debts from your own funds.
Some see this as government intervening, however as noted SS does NOT recognize POAs and if/when intervention happens, they can investigate what you have been doing with her SS benefits. This is the best/easiest way to ensure you have control over mom's finances (in no way was this "simple", but it was one of the easiest transitions I had to make - appointment, approval, set up new account, deposit first check sent, then request electronic deposits to that account - they even have some kind of online reporting, but they also provide a sheet to list all the payments made on mom's account.) I would highly recommend this for anyone, but even more so for someone who does not live locally to the person needing oversight - all documents would then also be sent to you, including tax paperwork. This was the main reason I did this as there was no way to change her address (we were just using her regular account, which had pension/SS deposited, we are all on the account and have DPOA, but needed to change address to get paperwork sent. Again, SS and other federal entities do NOT accept POAs of any kind other than their own!)
(Talk to her as if she was a child, kind and thoughtful, make her see the positive side about it, and don't bail her out... You can't bail a child that has fallen on to the floor and got hurt.... The hurt is the lesson for the child to learn to be more aware of himself - herself). By you paying her bills, she acts like teenager who doesn't care since there is someone else who is taking the burden... Make her see how detrimental she's acting with actions not words. (Don't yell, don't get angry, it wouldn't work.. It isn't working for you. Perhaps she is doing it just to be contrary...) I know how hard it's.
I'm dealing with 2 elderly friends, totally different characters. I talk to them as if they're children, lovingly but a bit stern and even though I have to repeat myself over and over for them to get an idea of the things I'm doing. I'm able to do it... Show her that you love her but you also mean business...