What does "repeat these 3 words back to me" test?

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What does "repeat these 3 words back to me" test?

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My mom is in rehab for PT to get her walking again. The social worker came in and gave her 3 words and said remember these, I'll ask for them later. Then he asked what day it is, the month and the year. She got them all correct, but could not remember the words. He gave her strong hints, but she just could not get one.

Alzheimer's & Dementia Diagnostic Criteria

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I hate that 3 word test. Last year I couldn't remember them, until the tester used clues. I did ask if I could name the 3 words from the previous year test as I had remembered those after the fact :P

Then the test where you need to name words that begin with a certain letter. I could do that in a heart beat EXCEPT when I am sitting in a doctor's office.... [rolling eyes].

Next week I have my annual check up. Not sure how I will answer when asked "who is the current President?".

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How's about 'some a$$hole'...

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that is and/or should only be part of a test, not the end-all. I remember my mom being tested and I started to worry about myself since I couldn't answer some of the questions! Tests need to be more encompassing.

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This is just a preliminary exam. (The social worker should not be giving clues, she doesn't know how to do the exam correctly.) At this point there should be a more through exam starting with the entire mini mental status exam MME. A neurophychologist can be consulted for a more comprehensive exam which consists of an interview not just a series of questions. This person has the training to really evaluate what is going on. By the way, a person can do poorly on the MME if they are depressed or have attention deficit disorder. Hearing problems also interfere with performance. Just for fun, I will say that the MME was given to a relative in 2009 and I still cannot FORGET the three words: penny apple table! It's so memorable because, while I knew there was a problem, I was shocked at how badly she did. Her clock drawing was a mess. That day, I saw a difficult future laid out before us.

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It test's an individual's short term memory.

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Non-professional here so take it with a grain of salt, but this is what the neurologist told me.

My example is my Mom. With the test she forgot the 3 words, couldn't recall anything. However with hints she easily remembered all three. This told something about the process of memory retrieval. The neurologist told me that because she could remember with hints, it was less likely to be Alzheimers. And in fact she ended up being diagnosed with dementia caused by Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus. Her memory is awful, but she still has very good understanding.

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Did the Doctor offer the possibility of putting in a shunt to drain off some of the fluid buildup? Just wondering if that was an option with your mom?

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They are a cognitive memory test.

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RitaDenise - there wasn't a button to respond to your reply to my post.

After reading your response, there's obviously way more going on here than whether or not your mom can re-state three basic words on delayed recall. I asked in my original post whether or not OT and speech are part of the rehab team because if not, they should be. It sounds like you already know that your mom is unsafe at home. I'm not completely clear on what assist she needs with her toileting, but it sounds like she needs help. Her rehab team is there not only to help her regain function, but to make recommendations to her and your siblings for her safest possible and most manageable discharge. It sounds like these decisions are up to your brothers until you replace one of them on her healthcare proxy.

If you're truly concerned about dementia and cognitive function, this is the time to have her fully assessed if she hasn't been already. A good clinician will take her hearing impairment into account. And the results may better guide everyone in decision-making.

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My brothers would not be on board with these extra tests. I've already had an argument with youngest brother about him trying to get her out ASAP. I ended up saying I wouldn't go to the meeting. I had this feeling that if I went, he would skip out.

Mom may need help to walk to the bathroom or pull her pants down. I am not sure. At the point, I had talked about it at the 1st meeting, it was not clear if she could get up and walk using a walker on her own.

As she falls asleep every time she sits down, I think she is a cooking hazard. However, she will not allow anyone else in the house except this one woman. She did has a lot of money stolen from her from her 2nd caretaker. It was a she said, she said situation and so we could not press charges.

because I am retired, I think both brothers think I have all this free time to babysit her. she is 45 min away from me. I take her to all her medical appointments, and out to her COA on Fridays for the knitting group.

I simply do not want to live there. Neither does my hubby want me to live there. Driving back and forth is wearing me out. I am 64. Not a young kid anymore

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Healthygirl, you rock! You should be so proud f your accomplishments! Thank you for posting your personal struggle as well. Although this forum is primarily a forum on aging, I am learning so much! Thank you!

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Even as a kid, the minute they said "remember these words" I'd forget them. Still the same today. But I can remember anything I'm not told to remember. Weird.

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Ahhh, you were/are one of those kids we have to use reverse psychology on!!! I know your type!!! :-D

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That test is for short term memory loss.

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My friend got so tired of trying to answer these questions, he finally asked me if it was ok to say to them, ‘On the advice of my attorney I don’t have to answer your questions’! I told him sure, but he never remembered to say it to them. At least he had a sense of humor!

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That is hilarious!!! Too bad he forgot to use it.

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My Mom's had that test twice last week. It's to test her short term memory which she failed by the way. She can recall 2 out of 3 words which isn't totally bad.

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I remember Mom being assessed this way. The second time I witnessed this, the doctor forgot to say "I'll ask for them later." A few minutes later, he asked her for them, and without skipping a beat, she declared, "You didn't tell me that I would have to memorize them for later!" Busted. Having spent a lot of time with her, I was certain that even if he had said the magic words, she would be lucky if she could remember one of them. My opinion, the "mini mental" is not a good way to determine the memory deficit; it can be skewed by hearing impairment too. My mom who was hearing impaired was famous for writing everything down. Writing reinforced the information and she was left with visual reminders. Mini mental tests are helpful for knowing whether a patient can remember to take medication for example. Medication machines can be quite helpful when memory deficit is minor. There are many other strategies to employ until memory problems are far greater than your mom's.

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Well, at least she was smart enough to take him to task!!! Kudos to mom for that!!!

Really it is more important for those who are most familiar with someone's behaviors, abilities, routines, etc to keep tabs on them and watch for the subtle signals, and they ARE subtle (some can be caused by other medical issues, many of which can be treated.)

Early dementia can be dealt with, even allowing the person to live alone for a while longer (we did this, using various tricks and tools to keep tabs on her and try to keep her safe such as cameras, locked alarmed Rx dispenser, bringing in aides for quick one hour visit/check, enlisting eyes/ears of neighbor, etc.) Doctor's do not see patients on a regular basis or for very long during appointments. The MME test can be relatively useless for the early stages as "show-timers" can get through the test, yet be incapable of doing simple tasks at home! Listen, Observe and Report.

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I had mom's HMO perform a memory loss test on her. It took about an hour and included one on one conversation and several pages of "tests." A main test was: please draw the face of a clock. Which normally consists of a circle and the numbers 1-12 on the face. She couldn't do that nor most of the other questions. I had this test performed so I could get a letter from her physician stating what type of dementia she most likely is suffering from which is Alzheimer's. I needed this letter in order to support my power of attorney in the future, which is now part of her important documents.

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Exactly what I did and got the same outcome for my mom. Her GP and neurologist both wrote letters for my POA. Got mom to sign me on, also onto her checking and savings accounts, as she was not making payments on time.

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That is the test for short term memory - it shows how well she can remember instructions etc - so they know at what level she will do anything on her own if asked

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These questions are part of a test called the “Mini Cog,” which tests cognitive ability. For each question she answers correctly she scores points which will help determine where she’s at. A social worker used this test to make a quick assessment and decision-making on what steps to take next if need be. The 3 items she asked your mom to remember looks at working memory and recall.

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I had this test at my physical. I couldn't remember the middle word (and was given no hints). I got everything else correct, so I passed the overall test. However, it still bothered me. However, it's almost like remembering names--I'm only likely to remember them if I make a very concentrated effort to do so.

Even when I was school, including university lectures, I found I got relatively little information out of hearing, and often found my classroom notes almost useless, often reverting to textbooks to absorb the subject. I take in information much better by visual rather than auditory means.

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I'm like you, things tend to go in one ear and out the other. I used to struggle to force names and numbers into my long term memory but now I don't even bother trying - a bad habit because I'm sure I'd fail the mini mental

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I think it's short term memory. I'm lucky when I can remember 2 out of 3, lol.

DH did better than me and he was 96 to my 66.

Don't worry about it. It's just one of several ways that they test the brain.

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I wouldnt worry about it. Havent you ever forgotten what day it was?

Easy to do if you're retired.

Aso yourself, humm have I forgotten something someone told me before?

Im sure the answer is yes.

Just Saying

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I gave them the three words in Klingon but they didn't believe me. Their loss.

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hehehe!!!

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That is a ridiculous test to give anyone. Dimentia is about much more than that! I have never been able to remember the 3 words and I dont have dimentia. I think it incorrectly diagnoses many. But believe they use it as a starting point to see what they retain.

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No one doing it would ever make a diagnosis on this alone (I HOPE!). But in our case, yes, it was a starting point. When I sat down and reviewed the common signs of dementia I was shocked that as I reviewed them, my mother had the majority. It wasnt't that we were not unobservant, it was that we thought it was just "more" of her obnoxious behaviors/traits. It was a significant change in environment (i.e. vacation) that brought it all to the surface; I sent a note to her primary MD who was a love; at a next visit he did the mini mental of which this was included and she did very poorly (18/30). HE was shocked. That's how good they can be at covering and getting by for a long while.

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Everyone on a rehab team is assessing a person's cognition in one way or another. In the social worker's case, he was giving your mom a cognitive screen to determine if there are any issues with orientation and working memory. It's also not uncommon to ask some basic problem-solving questions just to get an idea of how a person is thinking in the moment. With regard to problems with working memory, this can translate functionally to a person starting something on the stove, going to answer the phone, and then completely forgetting there's something on the stove. Or making a doctor's appointment and then forgetting about it after moving on to something else. It's not always a big issue when someone can't recall the words, but it can be a flag. Did the OT and PT also screen and, if so, did they have any concerns?

You didn't say why your mom is in rehab. Did she have surgery that required general anesthesia? Did she have pneumonia or a UTI? All of these can cause temporary, and sometimes permanent, issues with cognition. Being in a rehab facility also frequently unmasks cognitive impairment because the person is no longer in their own environment. If this is the case, there's often a referral to speech therapy for cognitive interventions.

The best thing to do in this situation is speak directly with the social worker and/or team members if you have concerns. Cognitive assessment should be an ongoing process when someone is in rehab. It's not a one-time screen and everything is determined from that. Your mom's memory lapse may have been situational but if she is showing difficulty in other areas of cognitive function, then this is an opportunity to identify them so that good supports can be put in place.

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My mom was admitted to the hospital on a Thurs for rapid, rapid heart rate and she also had fluid around her heart - she has Congestive Heart Failure. because she was on a drip to slow down her heart rate, they kept her in bed. she is 90. She needs to get up and walk. Once her heart rate was slowed down, she was moved to a rehab/nursing home to get walking PT. I think this is on of the better ones, plus she had been there in Sept. She falls asleep a lot at home,once she sits down, so cooking is a hazard now - uses a walker and has someone come in to shower her 2X week plus a 3rd day to clean.

I had wondered if she had dementia, but she seemed to be ok. Now however, she is seems to be a bit more difficult. Even with hearing aids, she is very hard of hearing. I am seeing her attempt to read lips also. She was never very bright to begin with, never had a time line ever, is illiterate. she talks about stuff that happens years past as if they happened yesterday.

I live 45 min away, one brother lives 90min away and is having surgery, so he won't be able to come down for at least 6 weeks. she lives in an inlaw apt with our youngest brother, who works some days and some nights and is hardly home. Frankly, I don't want to have to deal with a person that cannot toilet herself and is just plain mean! she is 150 lbs, I can't lift her either.

this nursing home won't talk to me about mom unless she is present. I am thinking that maybe I should just ask my questions anyway. I think I was trying to spare her feelings.

I visited her last night and got an earful! I went to the nursing station and it seems there were just 2 nurses on the floor - not a huge floor by any means. one gave me a difficult time, I am not on her healthcare proxy, but I am on the hippa. says she couldn't talk to me because of not being on the health care proxy - the nursing supervisor said there can only be 2 people on it and I was ok with both brothers. I will be taking one off and adding me.

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For my wife, when they give her the MMSE, they use the same 3 words for over a year now. If she is admitted to the hospital and then returns to the NH, she may have the test 4 times in one day. She has taught herself to remember the 3 words over this long period of time. She can't remember if she had lunch but she can tell you the 3 words.

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Apple, penny, table.

My mom often mentioned that my late dad's neurologist used the same three words every single time he was tested. Nowadays, when Mom's doctor says, "I'm going to say three words and I want you to remem...", she cuts him off and blurts, "apple, penny, table!"

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This is a frustrating topic. I know my own short term memory isn’t good, hasn’t been for years. I was able to pass the short term memory test only because I concentrated on remembering the three words, at the expense of the rest of my office visit. While concentrating on remembering, the rest of the exam was useless, as I didn’t retain a thing. Geez, I mean, really. I have had issues with memory my entire life, and have always had to write everything down, to function. List making at home, making notes for myself at work, reading a page of words, but not recalling anything I read, all have plagued me my entire life. I made flash cards for myself to study from throughout college, as repetition, and sequencing information helped me retain information. Obviously as a lifetime issue, it’s not a form of dementia for me. But every doctor I ever told about my memory issues brushed me off. Now I’m at an age where people sometimes experience cognitive decline, and I fear at some point I may be misdiagnosed. My armchair diagnosis is that I suffer from C-PTSD from serious childhood narcissistic abuse, inflicted by parents and sibling mobbing. There was also a violent rape as a teenager, by a family member. From my years of reading and counseling , this cognition issue can be a result. It’s sad to have to work so hard to function mentally, whether C-PTSD, PTSD, or some type of dementia. I feel for those going through such difficulty.

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Girlsaylor,
I feel for you.. and i will say that you write very well...your story is just heartbreaking. 😢 With this kind of short-term memory loss we learn to compensate in other areas, which become our strengths. I had a brain tumor in my young forties which affected my sh-term memory, but i do make lists and notes to remember what is important. I also challenged myself to earn a Master’s degree, complete at age 59! You can do amazing things when you put your mind to it. 🤓

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As many have said here, this is part of a larger test for cognitive decline. I am taking the Dr Dale Bredesen ReCODE Protocol to prevent and reverse Alzheimer’s, as my mom died from it. My doctor gave me this test to determine a base line. Frankly, it is a bit tricky. My encouragement to you is to get your mom on the ReCODE Protocol now, before there is further decline. There are many things that can cause Alzheimer’s, including mold in a person’s home. Dr Bredesen (UCLA) wrote the book, The End of Alzheimer’s. He can be found on the internet. Message me, if you have more questions. Some doctors put people on Aricept. But how many people have been cured of Alzheimer’s by Aricept? Zero. The Bredesen ReCODE has a 90%, and growing, cure rate. I will take those odds any day. I would recommend not delaying, if there is a concern for Alzheimer’s in your mom.

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I have one copy of ApoE4 gene and a great grandmother who had dementia (my parents both died before they turned 80, so I don't know if one of them would have developed it. I read Dr. Bredesen's book, but it seemed too complicated to remember the ReCode protocol. I am still traveling overseas (but on group tours rather than alone) at 81 (heading to Arabian peninsula tomorrow) and ReCode will be impossible for me then. I do forget a lot of stuff, but I misplaced and lost books and lunch bags when I was a kid too. However, my photography memory which helped me earn advanced degrees and excel in my career, is definitely gone. I can't remember what books I read or what movies I have seen! Fortunately my health is good as I have no signs of heart disease or cancer (although sometimes I wish I would as then I might die before the dementia developed, as my mom (cancer, 79) and dad (heart attack, 63) did. Maybe once I settle down I will attempt ReCode again.

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The tester asked my mom to spell “world” backwards, mom misheard it and said “ “whirl” then proceeded to spell whirl backwards correctly without hesitation. I thought the nurse would realize, but when the doctor came in she showed that question as answered incorrectly. So I can clearly see that the tester needs to have the awareness when something is not black or white. The doctor then asked her to spell world backwards and she did without problems.

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Shelola...You make a good point. The test in the hands of an unqualified tester can do more harm than good.

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if someone asked the tester the same “3 word” questions, s/he might not remember the answer later either. This tests nothing. Take comfort in the correct answers and just love her.

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I completely agree. One's family knows how bad it is getting and a simple short memory test isn't going to give them any information that will be helpful

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It’s a short term memory test. Often long term memory remains intact. If the patients score is below 19 out of 30 they are a candidate for a memory drug called aricept. It doesn’t improve memory but helps maintain memory in dementia patients. Usually this drug is prescribed for patients that are still living at home and are still mobile. Usually the drug is discontinued when they are admitted into care or stop walking.

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Cognitive function. But I don’t know about your mom but my mom with dementia not only would not know them but her ability to remember other things ie who is president, date, age, birthday etc is also impaired. About 3 yrs ago she had some memory loss ( could only remember 1 of them) but knew all the other stuff. They did not consider her to have dementia then just some memory loss. At that time they recommended she have some help with financial and prescription activities but other than that lived alone . Her’s has since progressed but she had a stroke .

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