I would like to install Nest cameras to check on my mom, who lives alone. She will definitely ask what they're for. I'm worried she will feel that her privacy will be threatened and decline. What explanations did you all offer when taking this step??
The theory was that the video would show if someone had fallen but not give a lot of detail on normal activity.
I like the idea of an overview of the kitchen and maybe the front door area.
I was going to get an Amazon Echo Show for my parents' house because it allows you to "drop in" on people, and you can both see and hear each other. I see Amazon is also starting a new Care Hub feature that allows you to keep track of loved ones.
I didn't get an Echo Show because I had already spent money on other cameras for my parents' house. I actually didn't ask them if I could put the cameras up -- I just did it.
I started by putting one camera in full view in the main living area. I worried that they would yell about it, or unplug it, since they are stubborn, private, "independent" people, but they didn't. Dad asked what it was a couple of times, and I told him that it's a camera. He said, "It is not." I didn't argue with him. I have since put up several more cameras in plain view in all the "fall zones."
Invasion of privacy? Yep. But, in my opinion, if they want to stay living in their home, that's the price they have to pay. We can certainly take the cameras out, and at that point, I will stop assisting them. The cameras are one of the tools that I require in order to assist them.
Once I stop assisting them, they will end up going to a place with less privacy where there's a good chance that they also use cameras! Mom and dad have both already been in the hospital and rehabs that have used cameras.
I use the cameras respectfully. I look in on them quickly to make sure that they aren't on the floor. I don't spend all day with my eyes glued to the screen. And, I certainly don't want to see any "private moments."
Life Alert necklaces and braceletts won't work for them because they will refuse or forget to wear them. Or, they wouldn't remember how to use them.
I also use the cameras to make sure their caregiver has shown up, since we've had several "no-shows."
So at this point, the cameras are working for us. Luckily, mom and dad didn't fight it. Now, I don't think they even notice the cameras.
There are downsides to the cameras -- or at least my setup. If the wireless connection drops, which it does a few times per month, the cameras turn off. At that point, I have to go to their house and hit the button to reset the router.
Plus, I have to have several cameras placed throughout the house and positioned just right in order to see the needed areas. Sometimes a caregiver will shift a camera inadvertantly when cleaning, or put something in front of the lens.
Other cons include taking time to choose and set up cameras that are going to work for you. My cameras were fairly easy to set up, and they have good video, even in the dark. But, the sound feature is useless. The motion alert really hasn't been helpful because it seems to go between being too sensitive and not sensitive enough.
And of course, the cameras don't prevent falls, but they hopefully help you to get to a loved quickly if/when something does happen.
Is it really necessary and does your mom really need a camera on her at all times?
You might just have her start off by wearing a 1st Alert necklace or watch in case she falls or some other emergency.
Then when the time comes when she is more helpless, just tell her for her safety you would like to install a Nest Camera in part of the home like the Den and Kitchen area. Let her know there won't be one in her bathroom or bedroom where she would still have her privacy changing clothes, going to the bathroom and showering.
In another thread (https://www.agingcare.com/questions/how-to-move-parent-with-anosognosia-dementia-to-a-care-home-464654.htm?orderby=oldest), you stated:
"Why not install cameras to help keep an eye on her and have a Caregiver come by 2 or 3 hrs a day."
Now you say privacy is threatened, but then also go on to suggest when/how to install one???
A bit confused?
ALL recommendations for camera placement are in "common" areas, no where near any "privacy" issues. When a person becomes a fall risk, has medical conditions, is having cognitive issues, privacy is not the issue, esp if they live alone and insist on staying in their own homes (which YOU advocate for vociferously.) When we don't live next door, across the street or 10-20 minutes away, we need some way to keep eyes on the prize.
Thank God we had this. She had a terrible fall out of bed with a severe head injury. Crawled her way to the phone to call me. Used her call button to alert on-site staff who called 911. She ended up in her local trauma center with over 120 stitches and three plastic surgeons to close her up. I had an expensive $40 camera I got on Amazon. Since the video was saved to the cloud I was able to go back and see the entire event where she was apparently asleep and just rolled right off the bed. It was quite disturbing but glad I had the footage. Her head took the entire brunt of her 100 lb body. Besides the healing of her head which you can't even detect now, she was treated for whiplash which was the worst of the pain.
Since then, after subsequent questionable situations, we moved to her residential assisted living, again telling her it was for her safety. She's doing great and we feel so much better. Good luck!!!
I chose an all Google nest approach. In addition to the cameras, she has 2 google max hubs where I've programmed a slide show of family photos. She's even learned how to trigger a video call with me.
Before considering any of this, you'll need to confirm that they have an internet provider that offers an unlimited data plan. Many providers begin charging extra once your internet traffic reaches a certain level.
My mom has a great provider. We've set-up her service with 300mb wifi speed. I also swapped out her internet modem and router. The one the service provided was adequate but moving to a 3 unit google wifi router allowed us to maintain a strong signal in all parts of her home.
So..
1. Before you consider this type of solution contact their internet provider, explain what you're thinking of doing and ask for their recommendation of level of service.
2. Have a conversation with your loved one. First, listen to their concerns about the setup. Assure them this is a security and safety measure. Walk them through what your thinking of doing. Get their feedback and work together on placement, options, etc.
3. The bottom line is this needs to be a group effort. If they strongly object, don't force it. Now they are informed about options that exist and could easily request this down the road.
I hope this help!!!! ❤️
We have has several thefts at our rural property. I am going to install trail cameras, as they have batteries and cards to store the images. Our internet is far too slow and limited to allow for live streaming.
I worry too about replying on technology when a parent is at the point when it is being considered, they generally are nearing the point when they need 24/7 care.
The big thing here though is they are necessary if she is going to stay independent at all and she understands that. It’s a fine and important balance between what is necessary to keep her safe and healthy and maintaining her privacy and independence, in order to accomplish that balance we need to keep her as involved as we can while making sure we have what we need to cover what we need to. So far it’s working but the time is bound to come...
Good luck, it can be done with their cooperation.
As for privacy, as I told a nurse who came in to see her and was worried about the cameras, I am the only person that has access to the cameras, if it was not for COVID, I would have been there personally while she was there and by my mom's side, and , final argument, I won't see anything that I would not see if she was living with me.
I believe that the "why" they are there, and the "how" you use them is a big part of the right or wrong . It is a cost/benefit decision :privacy vs safety and ,quality of life I will add. I sometimes use them to help her find things ( not too small things), or when I notice a lamp is not working or that she has messed up the tv settings and it is not working anymore, I can call the residence and have someone go in and fix it. I also check before calling if she is not in the bathroom ( where I can only see her feet...), so she doesn't come running to the phone with her pants down her ankles or don't wake her up if she is napping. Just like I would peek in her room to see if she was asleep if she was at home with me.
I hesitated for a long time to put them in, and now I would not imagine not having them. With all the thing that I was able to do for her because of what I saw, it is worth the downsides...You will have to learn how to operate the cameras, but you will have to learn how you operate yourself to deal with being able to "keep an eye" all the time, and also deal with "seeing" your parent alone. "Knowing" that they are all alone is one thing, "seeing" them all alone is another. Images are powerful. But I also get to see happy moments that I would not otherwise. You take the good with the bad. As with everything, I believe that there is no universal right or wrong, you have to do what works for you and your loved one, plus it is something that is not all or nothing. You can ajust the equipment and the use your your specifics needs and situation and change them as the situations changes.
These are my virtual guardian angel two cents.
ps, tech advice, if you install something, get something that doesn't require you to be on site to fix any little glitches... some systems are better than other I believe regarding that aspect
https://www.ccn.com/how-stupid-does-google-think-we-are-nest-privacy-fiasco-is-flat-out-insulting/
I would not do this to my mother and I certainly would not want my sons to install cameras in my home. There are telephones. If a party can no longer use a phone then in-person care should be considered.
Talk to your mother. If she is willing to be monitored by tv cameras, find out where she would be willing to have them. If she does not want them, respect her wishes.
Frankly, I find it a little disturbing that you are planning to do something in your mother's home without consulting with her first. Please consider your motivations. Are you looking for something to soothe your anxieties? All of us have heightened anxieties these days. You seem to believe that you are acting against what she would want. Is the risk so great that it is worth trying to deceive her? We all live with the risk of accidents: a slip in the shower, mishaps in the kitchen, etc. That doesn't mean we would want cameras on our shower or in our kitchens so that another person could monitor our actions to see if an accident has occurred.
If your mother is strong-willed, you will get the most cooperation from her if you are honest and straightforward in your wishes to act in her behalf. It is very important that she feels that SHE is in control and that you are simply trying to help her. I know that with my own 96 year old mother the worst possible approach is to walk in with something that I or my sisters think she needs. That is an absolute guarantee that she will not even consider what she might have agreed to if we had merely suggested the idea first and got her input.
Mom refused aides. She refused to consider moving ANYWHERE, but esp not any kind of AL, even though that had been in her plans. She had very bad hearing and would often misplace the hearing aid or forget to replace the battery. A good neighbor was able, a few times, to help out when I couldn't contact mom (no cameras at that time.) Mom managed to misplace the portable phones AND turn off the ringer, so I was unable to reach her by phone for over TWO days! I finally resorted to having a PD wellness check (neighbor was away for vacation.)
YB installed the cameras when we hired aides to come in, minimum 1hr/day for a sanity/med check. It was more to ensure THEY were coming and not doing bad things. That plan, which included increasing days/times as needed, didn't last 2 months. She refused to let them in. She couldn't do her finances. She was no longer cooking. We had to set up a time/locked dispenser for her meds, but she'd still, despite audio/visual alarms, manage to miss taking them.
The cameras also revealed she developed an odd OCD behavior every night before bed, increasing to 1-1.5 HOURS every night! Suspect it was her version of sun-downing. Also revealed was that she was wearing the same clothes over and over, up to SIX days in a row, often with food stains. This is a woman who had enough clothes for every day of the year and then some! Wearing things multiple days is something I will do, if the items are clean. That was NOT how she was, so these cameras gave some insight into what was going on. Since she lived alone, there was no way to know how far down the dementia path she was (like others, she could put on quite a show, when necessary.)
Also with dementia, being honest and up front doesn't always work. They can forget what you said or even what they agreed to in a matter of MINUTES! Never mind forgetting, their self-image is distorted, usually thinking they are maybe 10-20 years younger and just fine thank you!
I didn't live close enough to monitor or manage things from home. YB was about same distance but flighty and also working full time. OB isn't local. We needed something to help us keep tabs on her. If nothing else, if she started wandering, how would we know? With the camera, we could see her leave and wait for the return. If not in short order (car was already removed, so any time out should be relatively short), then we'd have to wrangle up the posse!
If someone is just old, even with other medical conditions, I agree, have a discussion, explain why you'd want cameras. Honor their wishes. But with dementia, many decisions are no longer up for discussion.
"She sleeps a lot, often doesn’t bathe or change her clothes, forgets if she’s eaten, has trouble using the stairs."
NOTE: If you do install them and notice decline, understand that is the nature of dementia (and being that old too!) Decline will happen, cameras or not, but the advantage of cameras is you can monitor her and notice declines sooner than you might if you don't have them.
Other excuses could be used - be creative! Mouse or insect monitor/control, air freshener, whatever you can make it out to be, so it isn't "threatening" in any way.
YB installed the cameras before we hired aides in attempt to keep her in her own place, but that didn't pan out (she thwarted it.) I don't know what discussion he might have had with her, but if they are placed more or less out of sight, they generally don't notice them. Focus on the areas she might be more often, such as the kitchen,
If she takes medication, I highly recommend a time/locked dispenser if you don't already use one. If the camera can monitor the area that is in, all the better. One of the reason the aides were hired was to check to see she took them. They can't give them to her, but they can point out she missed them.
If she's forgetting to eat (sister who delivers groceries might be able to tell, if items are being eaten), it might be wise to monitor her weight, maybe sis can check once/week - check her own and ask mom to confirm it's working by getting on the scale.
Being 95 doesn't mean she's not capable, but again, your description sounds very much like my mother was like. The resistance to help or moving was VERY pronounced. Sure, many elders might be like that, but in her case she had PLANS to move to AL when she felt it was needed. Once dementia took over, forget that! Mom also took to wearing the same old tired outfits multiple times, up to SIX days in a row, sometimes with food stains on them. She had enough clothing to open her own store!!! An outfit for every day of the week and then some, yet she wore these old things. I'm not concerned about re-wearing clothing, but she always was, so to see her in the same things over and over, with stains, clearly there was an issue! It wasn't until we took the car and I had to facilitate groceries and supplies that I discovered she was no longer cooking anything. Stairs are a recipe for disaster. Sleeping mid-day was denied, but was observed while the aides were still active!
NOTE: POAs don't give us the "power" to "force" someone to move. That was what the EC atty told me when mom refused to consider moving and he suggested guardianship. I don't think she was far enough into dementia to qualify for that, BUT the facility chosen would not take a committal, so we had to come up with a "plan" ourselves. It involved a fib (fake letter YB drafted) and was used in conjunction with the cellulitis she developed after a shin injury, which she never mentioned to us or sought treatment for. THAT delayed the move a few days. She was VERY angry about the letter telling her she has to move to a place we choose or they will choose one (there was no real threat!) But, she went with the bros. The staff merely said "get her here, we'll take it from there." They did order anti-anxiety meds. No clue if they ever used it or how much/long. I stayed out of the actual move and stayed away about 2 weeks, to allow some "settling in."
My mother stayed with me for several weeks after heart surgery, she was 92. She had a cell phone she kept in her pocket all the time. One day when I was at work I called to check on her, no reply, I called several more times with no reply.
I have a Canary camera located in the living room so I checked it's live feed. Mom was sitting in her favorite chair watching TV and petting the cat. I called her again while watching her and she didn’t even blink!
When I got home I checked her phone and found that she had her phone in her pocket and had turned off the ringer when she put it in her pocket.
So having a camera saved me a panicked run home and an hour of anxiety.
She somehow managed to turn the ringer off the wall phone! Bad enough with lousy hearing and forgetting to replace the battery in her hearing aid, but with the ringer off, it was worse! We also had some cameras, but it may have been after this "incident." After 2+ days of calling and no answer, I finally had to call the PD for a check (neighbor was away.) The officer was smart enough to see that the phone had 3 quick calls set up with our names. She called me, as she had my contact name. She said hang up and call back. Sure enough, the ringer was off. She fixed it! Mom, of course, just says "Oh that daughter of mine", like I'm some kind of worry-wort!!! I didn't live close enough to swing by to check, so thankful the PD would do the check!
Any attempt to use those alert buttons, etc would not have worked with her either. She wouldn't think she needs it and/or would put it away or lose it. The cameras YB put in were a help. She'd often sit at the kitchen table (one camera monitored the front door and could see into the kitchen area) or be in there to get food or a drink, so we'd know she was up and about!
It isn't about dignity or privacy, it's about peace of mind.
I recently installed a Nooie 360 cam which works on my smartphone as well as Alexa and I love it! I can see my Mom when I go out and even talk to through the intercom.
I didn't tell my Mom because she has dementia and she wouldn't understand. I installed it in her bedroom right in front of her and she didn't ask me anything.
Why did I get a camera? To make me feel better and give me peace of mind when I have to go out to buy groceries or pick up her meds.
Good luck!
Jenna
You could say it’s for something like that, even set it up so she can monitor too
Use the same Psychology they used on us as kids :)
I think she felt better, because she would wave to it, thinking that I was always watching her.
It was how I discovered that she was sundowning, and couldn't be by herself anymore.
You have to do whatever you can to ensure your loved one's safety.
It's her choice technically, if she refuses, then legally you need to honor her preferences.
Are you trying to covertly install cameras?
It's best to talk to your mother about the idea of installing motion detectors or cameras in open areas. If she is willing to have cameras in her residence then ask where she would prefer to have them installed. BUT if she doesn't want cameras in her residence, please respect her boundaries.
If it's all about your anxiety, then start looking into caregiver options for her.
We installed a couple of cameras years ago, after our shed by the road was being broken into. You are right, flicking through the footage in real time was a pain in the neck, although we did find the culprit (the guy who came to read the power meter down by the farm gate, driving a nice little tradie’s van to pop things into). I think cameras are more sophisticated and more useful now!