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My mother-in-law is 85, has no sensation of needing to go, or of being wet. Will wear depends, but does not have sensation of wet, urge to go. Refuses to believe that she has wet herself, saying that she must have sat in something wet. She will wear adult diapers, but forgets to change them and leaks. The doctor has said that there is nothing he can give her if she doesn't even have the sensation. She is very stubborn and becomes very agitated if her smell or wetness is pointed out to her. She even hangs up dirty clothes to wear again.

She has no short term memory or focus, but is otherwise healthy.

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Put her on a changing schedule. She cannot live alone and needs aides or a move to Assisted Living.
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She may not be capable of remembering that she needs them, or how to put them on. Think pam is right, she needs assistance.
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This just part of the decline. You can't train her like a puppy by rubbing her nose in it and saying bad girl. Face it. It is only going to get worse. It took a while for me to realize all this by myself as I didn't ask anyone familiar (like this group)
She needs to change on a schedule. I have a battle with my mom every morning about putting on fresh depends. She insists that they are not dirty. she will even try to hide the new ones and lie to me saying she changed them. You need to have her change regularly as she could get infections, etc. Other hygiene is an issue I'll bet to if you are not living with her or she has no assistance. I'll bet she wears the same blouse for days, won't brush her teethe, or take a shower. If she does all these things then they are next. Either move her in with you or put her in AL. She's like a three year old. The difference is that the three year old grows up.
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Have to say DITTO to what the others have, and she is not alone.. many fights go on in a rest home as the staff try to change their residents, but that regular changing seems to help them.. and ignoring the fact that the pants are wet, but by saying Hey its time to go and change.. and when she resists, just respond. well its time, doesn't matter what state they are in, lets get it done its four hours.. and that indepth scientific mention of FOUR HOURs that they have no idea what that means. will often bring cooperation.[don't promise tho]
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My mom has the same issue with leakage. Some days are worse than other days. She moved on from Depends to Tena and says that Tena works better. I just wish these expensive products were covered under healthcare!
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They have leakage because she doesn't change enough. My brother in law had the same problem. He did have a memory though and when I told him how often to change he listened. She does not have a memory so she needs to have assistance. Everyone is right. It is so hard dealing with Alzheimer's and dementia. Especially in this area. My husband also has it. He has no idea about bowel! He can't shell and apparently doesn't care if he sits in it! It makes me crazy. When I smell it I strip him down and put him in the shower. What a mess. This is the worst part of being a caregiver for me. I can't stand the smells, the mess, or the clean-up! And yet I have to do it. He is just unaware of it all!
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I meant to say he can't smell and doesn't care if he sits in it!
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Hopefully, she's not living alone.

You need to wake up to the fact she's not able to care for herself. And, she's not 'healthy'. While her vitals are within normal range, sitting in urine is not healthy. And telling you she sat on something wet is delusional at best in that she believes you believe her.

The brain controls all functions. Apparently, it has stopped receiving the signal to get up and 'go'. I'm wondering how the furniture smells if she's sitting on it in wet 'diapers'?

At this point, her stubbornness is no longer a factor. You're in charge. As the person in charge, you have to figure out what will work for her. You may want to say to her that it's time to go to the bathroom, give her a new set of 'underwear' along with anything that may be wet. Note: Do not ask, you tell. I'd also suggest you line anything she is sitting on with waterproof pads.

It may be helpful for YOU to find out just exactly what her abilities are. There are tests that can be administered to help both you and her doctor understand what abilities have been lost, etc.

A 'healthy' dementia patient can live a very long time given the numerous medicines available to keep the body going. If she's allowed to continue her stubbornness, both she and you may find yourselves in an ER someday dealing with a Urinary Tract Infection.

This is not easy. If you feel you can't do this, I'd suggest either having someone come in to care for her or placing her in some sort of living arrangement. I never thought I would place my mother in a nursing facility, but after almost two years, I did after a doctor told me she won't realize the difference and the family will be less stressed.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I think putting her on a schedule might work, but she is in denial, so it will take a lot of consistency on our part. She does live with us, but my husband is so reluctant to hurt her feelings and push the issue. She becomes so defensive and angry, insisting that she doesn't have a problem.
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Has she designated a Medical POA? if so, that person, and her DPOA, need to either hire 24 hr care in bome, just to change her Depends, or, move her to a facility. She is no longer capable mentally of performing an essential.ADL--so she cannot be living alone. It's time for asst living, group bome, or in-home caregivers (and the in-home ones would have to be almost 24 hr, they can't be just 8 hr,.because mom goes to bathroom all times of nite and day. Maybe 2 x 8 hr shifts would suffice if mom can stay in her bed all nigbt).
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My husband has this problem too, not all the time. He changes every night but that morning change is hard. He is so stubborn too. He will feel of it and sometimes it is wet but it will feel dry on the surface but still stink. He will claim it is not wet or that he doesn't have time right now to change. My son comes over almost everyday and he will say Daddy when did you change, I can smell your diaper and my husband will get up without another word and go change. But for me , no no
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My mother in law has recently gone into a convalescent home, her toileting was terrible, she lived in our home, and it stank, but it was never her fault, it was always either " it must be the cat" or " i dont smell anything", shed go siit on the loo cos she felt the urge, but once she got there she couldnt go, so she do back to her seat and wet herself, got to the point she would not wear anything on her liwer half because "i cant get it off in time, and it ends up wet" so of course Im cold" was the next cry, "but its 76° in the house,& its 100° outside" , she was such a contradiction
it was a tough couple of months getting her into somewgere, Im the bad guy, because i got her the medical attention she needed, shes not happy with me at all, but shes gettibg the 24. Hr care she needs, Dads getting some sleep, and our home is alot calmer, not to mention it doesnt stink anymore. My advice is, she needs help you cant give her, adult services can help.
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Try put her on a toliting.Take her to the bathroom every couple hours. Check her diaper.If its wet encorage her to change the diaper and pant if needed. Let her know that it ok to be incontinent but it's not ok to not take care of yourself.
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I had the same problem with my Mom. I would put a Depends on before I woke her up. When she would say she wasn't wet and didn't need the Depends, I told her everybody had to wear them including me, then I would show her I was wearing one. She was partially continent. She could tell she had to go, but by the time she told me, we could not make it to the bathroom in time. Then we got on a schedule, and I told her everybody has to change now. She was surprised everytime. She would say "Everybody?" And I would say "that's right Mom, everybody has to". It's what worked for me. Oh, if her clothes got wet, I would never tell her it was urine, or she would not believe me. So I would just say she had a stain on her pants I had to scrub out. It make things easier.
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The hospital tried retraining her bladder by making her go every 2 hrs, she complained to my father in law, who complained in turn to the nurses, " its just not right waking her up every 2 hrs thru the night" so they stopped, i believe theyve started it up again at the convalescent home tho, she does some pile of complaining about what they do to her and what they dont do, (everything she complains about is things that needed done, im aware of whats going on, she wants to come home but cant. )
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I have this exact problem with my husband. We have tried everything for the incontinency and baths but he will not allow or cooperate with us. At a support group recently it was suggested that I ask his doctor for a prescription for him to bathe at least 2 times a week ., which he did. I'l repot if it works. Also he asked me to purchase RESONAL, youu can get it at Walmart if you ask the pharmacy. It is kept behind the counter. It is a great barrier for the incompetent. I emphasize with all of you. Hardest thing I have ever done. Hope these things will help.
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My husband is totally incontinent. I got tired of Depends leaking, then used Tena for about a year. Now I use Abena pullups (Abri-flex) during the day and Abena "briefs" or diapers (Abri-form) at night. I found these products by reading the customer reviews on Amazon. Haven't had a leak in months. They are a little bulky, but if a person is to the point of being totally incontinent, they won't notice. For bowel incontinence, I use Fleet liquid suppositories every other day while my husband is seated on the toilet. This has totally prevented bowel accidents. These products and a good supply of gloves have really helped.
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Mom lives with me and also has that issue. I work full time so I get her up in the morning with me, just say its time to go to the bathroom, make her change and sometimes just sitting on the toliet is enough to make her go if she hasn't already. Then she goes back to bed and I go to work. When I get home, I check her. If ok then we wait until bedtime and I tell her again..time to go to the bathroom before bed. Once you establish the habit it gets easier. Occasionally she still gets stubborn and will say I don't have to go then I wait a few minute and try again. When they have no short term memory, something that didn't work 10 minutes ago gets a different reaction if you try it again because they don't remember telling you they won't do it. I have tried to get her to do something and she firmly said no, I come back a few minutes later, ask nicely again and she is all smiles and say ok. Learning that trick has saved many an argument and my sanity.
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Tell your husband to Man Up! She did all this for him, now it is his turn to do what is best for her, even if it makes him "feel bad". A friend of mine has her Mom on a schedule and she does exactly what has been suggested. She tells her it's time to go to the bathroom. For instance, about once an hour she tells her Mom to go, after lunch before she sits back down in the living room and the same at dinner. And she limits how much fluid her mother drinks. She has one of those big 24 oz (Tervis) mugs with handle, lid and straw. She fills it up in the morning, at lunch, at dinner and after dinner Mom has no additional fluids. Mom doesn't know or care. Would be beneficial for you to learn more about dementia and Alzheimer's. Good luck. Tough road to trudge. Facing the same myself with my Aunt who is 95.
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euron-info
Color changing pads in Europe.
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With the leakage I say my husband has "outgrown" Depends. I now get awesome products from Northshore on line. No more wet clothes or wet beds. My daughter brought up a good point - the products are like baby diapers in that they absorb the moisture so you can't tell they are wet. Which makes it difficult to convince someone a problem exists. I get daytime and nighttime ones and have to put them on opposite sides of the closet because he can't tell the difference. I also have to put a big red F for the front since he can't tell front from back. It's also interesting to note that sometimes he sits on the toilet thinking he has to go. I tell,him that if he hasn't gone by now it's all in the diaper and to move on. I am certainly glad we have this forum to exchange experiences and get new ideas.
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My hubby, who has dementia, became incontinent quite a while ago, although sometimes he does tell me he has to go. If he is wet or otherwise, I simply wash him down and change him, chatting with him the whole time. He keeps apologizing, and I keep telling him not to worry, that other people have accidents, too. The incontinence is the least of the problems that go along with dementia, so far as I'm concerned. I didn't make a big deal of it when my three children were little, and I don't make a big deal out of it now. It's par for the course. Look at it that way.
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When this started happening with my mom, I discovered that it wasn't so much that she "didn't know" (she would also say 'she had sat in something' or 'spilled something') but she was too embarrassed to admit what was happening. Yes - denial. We can't afford in-home caregivers or a facility. I had a private talk with her, explaining that this is a normal thing at her age and started inserting TENA Serenity pads in the 'pulls ups' worked. Before her dementia - she was able to recognize the wet pad and change it. She's bed-ridden now; so I just change her every 4 hrs. It sounds as though you may have a long road ahead of you. As Mallory indicated; now would be a good time to revisit any legal documents that have already been done and possibly initiate new ones.
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I have the same problem with my mother that lives with us. She is very stubborn.I cant tell you how many times a day I am ready to vomit. I find the dirty depends on her bed, stuffed in her drawers etc. Shes now refusing to wash her hands or flush the toilet (if she makes it there) And getting her in the shower is almost a fight. I steam clean my living room furniture once a week. I wash her bedding every other day.
At what point do all of you feel its time to put someone in a nursing home?
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dgolden...you are the only one that can make that decision. if your emotional health is at risk because it's tooooo much to care for your mother...and she has medicaid...you should NOT feel guilty, or try not to...but DO what is best for you! if you read these boards...you can clearly see that people are losing their minds because they are caretakers...and cannot afford to put seniors in a facility. so, if you have that option, you are VERY LUCKY!!
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oh sorry....mother-in-law!
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Sometimes it's the expense that stops them from changing personal hygiene products often enough. That, and they THINK it's dry because the surface doesn't feel wet, but underneath it's full. Add the two together and they see no point in changing. Have you tried a mail order service like HDIS? (No connection - we have had good experience with them, they even turn the shipping box inside out so the neighbors don't see you're getting a carton of Depends.) But the other posters are right - unless this addressed, she'll end up with a UTI, and because she has little feeling, the first symptom may be a seemingly altered mental state.
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You have all been so great to add your experiences and encouragement. This has been a great help and makes me feel so much better to be able to talk about it. My husband is not ready to fully deal with it
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I thought Medicare paid for Depends/Tenas. My daughter, the RN, said something about ordering them thru a company and Medicare pays. I know they do if on Hospice.
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My first clue that mamma was having a problem -the urine smell on my once fashion plate mother. After her rapid decline and admission to a memory care unit I have her on the incontinence package. A flat monthly fee and she is DRY - IF she needs changing 1 or 25 times a day. A UTI can cause all kinds of problems for dementia patients - you will have to be strong and make the hard decisions. This problem will not going away and will only get worse. Most dementia patients- have lost the sense of smell and feeling wet or dry. Good luck and lean on your support system.
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