How far into delusions and confabulation do dementia patients go?

It is heart wrenching to read this and thank you for doing so.
We all share in your grief and heart break. And give you a hug.

"And there is no proof to provide nor witness to give that will dissuade her."

My sense is that you don't realize that there is little to nothing you can do to 'dissuade her.' This tells me that you do not realize that she doesn't have the cognitive capacity to 'be' dissuaded.'

If I were you, I would consider:

* Asking MD about medication (to calm her down).
* Have you considered taking her to a 'day care' for activities? This might really help her, even though(of course) she won't want to go. She'll fight you all the way. Although don't tell her that is where she's going.
* While it is good you blocked her from calling you, block her from leaving messages. (Get another phone only for her so you can manage the messages).

You need to put yourself first as this is tearing you apart and exhausting you / you will run out of steam. You must put yourself - your health - first (and be there for YOU to be there for your mom).

* Learn how to interact / speak / communicate with her. I know you are doing what you can, however you need to set very clear boundaries - in your own head - to not be pulled in. For instance ...

*** Know / learn / develop ... your boundaries. You have to create them otherwise you will be spent - mentally and every other way.

*** Realize you are GRIEVING. Perhaps get into therapy (as I did).

When you say "I'd like my Mother back" my heart breaks for you. Yes. You do.

THIS IS IMPORTANT _____________________________

What I would do is try to be as present with her now - how she is - 'instead' of wishing she were different. Take her hand, smile, tell her you love her. These moments won't come back. Even if you cry, with her.

When she starts in with her fantasy(ies), you might say "I understand you feel this way mom and I want you to know I REALLY LOVE YOU.

Hold her hand / make good eye contact.
Being present with her:

(1) she'll get it; she will feel it

(2) it might shift her away from the automatic fantasy trip she's on - even momentarily, and

(3) - it will help YOU to be present with her, while redirecting her.

________________________________

Consider -
*** Limit the time you interact with her on the phone and/or in person.
*** When you have had enough, stop - leave or say "I have to go now (if on the phone ... actually, or in person).
*** Never sit there and listen as she will go on and on ... and on. You be with her for a few minutes and then you get up and either leave or go in the kitchen and fix her a meal or something.
*** Distract her as you can. Ask her to fold napkins or laundry. Find 'busy' work for her.
*** Her mind is making up stories as it is all she / her mind can do. I sense that It is likely a way for her to funnel her anger (and confusion) - to direct it to you.

I don't know if there is an 'extreme' - it is her brain changing. She is fighting for her perceived independence and 'personhood.'

Be strong. You are doing what you are doing for her, as well as to maintain your health and self.

I reiterate:

* Do what you need to do for YOU.
* Keep yourself as whole as you can, while realizing you are grieving the loss of your mother - and may need support of a therapist, or certainly friends.
* * Allow yourself to grieve / cry / feel out of control 'wanting your mom as she used to be.'
* Do nice things for yourself, i.e., garden, go to a museum, out to lunch with friends, a walk in the park (can you do this with your mother?) take a hot bath, get a massage, start writing in a journal, take a dance or Tai Chi class, meditate.

AND IF YOU CAN ... take a week or two off and go away - into the mountains or wherever you want to be. You need a break. Hire someone to be with your mother. She will survive, if not thrive.

Gena / Touch Matters

"How far into delusions and confabulation do dementia patients go?"

They can go far enough to have you put in jail. They are so convincing when telling their story. Others will question you. The police will take you in for questioning.

Watch your back with demented people.

Your mom is persisting in this delusion. She is obviously anxious and agitated as well about her version of reality. You could say that she is suffering from anxiety. I would recommend talking to her doctor about adding a mild anti-anxiety medication as part of her usual daily medications. This should help her to relax more and not be so heart-broken. When she is more relaxed, she should be more easy to redirect.

Your situation sounds frustrating. If your Mom is able to write notes and read them, have you considered putting copies around her house of her brothers estate’s distribution of his estate assets? Maybe then she can read them over and over again and just maybe have a shred of reasoning that her brothers wife is who inherited her brother assets. 🤷‍♀️

My mother was the queen of confabulations once Alzheimer’s hit. She had been an accountant, so she went from tabulation to confabulation. Although she played golf on an amateur league, she thought she played golf with the pros, and what other delusions, who knows? She’d make up these stories about having been in Paris with my dad on a business trip. It was quite elaborate too: how she took a tour of the city, and the tour guide offered to give her a private tour of the city. She also had money delusions, that “someone” was going through her purse, (which had $5 in it and a lipstick, both of which I put there.) She  had illusions; ill-ussions was a perfect term, in that I had to remind myself that this was an illness after all. Similar to another comment that was posted, my mother-in-law, who also had Alzheimer’s, sometimes thought that my husband was her husband, (her late husband), and that he was having an affair, with me. Although my mom lived with us (for 5 years), my mother-in-law lived in Assisted Living/Memory Care, and once while we were visiting, she pointed to me and then told Hubby to “get that ‘heifer’ out of here. When we got back in the car, I let him have it. I said that X number of extra pounds did not a heifer make, and even if they did, it was a rude thing for her to say, but he told me that that was her term for “the other woman.” I said, “Gee, thanks.” Isn’t that sad, that I’d rather be known as a home-wrecker, than as a woman with a middle age spread. That’s what society does to us, or sometimes, what we do to ourselves. I’ve included these anecdotes in a book I wrote chronicling this caregiving journey called, “My Mother Has Alzheimer’s and My Dog Has Tapeworms: A Caregiver’s Tale.” (I thought of the title when I was driving home from work one day, and I realized that my once broad life was reduced to the pressing health concerns of my mom and dog.) I tried to write it the way I dealt with the whole situation: with humor and heart. I found writing in and of itself, therapeutic. It’s a good way to express your frustrations. As another person wrote, an Alzheimer’s mind really can’t reason much. Another person  accurately said that sometimes, medicine can make things worse, (and it might take a while for doctors to come up with a good “cocktail” of medicine). Each case is different. In my mom’s case, less was more, regarding medicine and subsequent behavior, although nothing was perfect. Best of luck.

It is very difficult dealing with my mother’s delusions that the neighbors are thieves and out to get her. That they've scratched her car when it's just rusting. She has called me terrible names and accused me of wanting the neighborhood men and when she's gone they'll rape me. She has threatened to call the police because she thinks a man living next to us comes out on purpose to watch us. He is not and even if he is it isn't illegal and he's on his property. I'm planning on moving in several years to a more secluded property because she can't function with people she doesn't know well living around her.

Sadly the mind starts to go for a lot of people once they hit their late 70s and up. Its difficult to see them becoming a shell of their former selves but this is common in the last years of life. Be thankful you don't have to live with her.

Junie25: As your mother suffers from dementia, her brain lacks the capacity for logical thought processes. Ask her physician to write a script for medication(s).

I am wondering what medications she may be on. Sometimes that can make things worse! Something to look into!

Good luck with that.It is a very organized delusion but there are worse.
My wife is convinced that I and our divorced daughter have a romantic relationship.
This has been going on for a year and is persistent.

I don't have a helpful answer, but the confabulation can be rather amusing at times. My husband comes up with some good ones every now and then. The latest story, which was repeated every time I saw him for months, was about his sister, who has been dead for over three years. "I'm so mad at my sister. She stole my truck and drove it downtown. Then she sold it to some really bad guy." How do you know he was a really bad guy? "Because he was surrounded by a lot of questionable women." You mean he was a pimp? "Yes!!" How the heck did he even come up with the "questionable women" idea?? Oh, well. It still gives me a chuckle.

How bad it can get is when tempers start growing and the PWD takes out a knife or gun. Usually what happens is an ER visit and a request for a 72 hour hold due to the risk fo safety to her and others. Next is a stay at a psych facility to get meds to calm. You mention she is crying. This signals she is suffering inside her broken brain.
This is an extreme example but it is similar to my cousin who was a victim of murder suicide back in 1997.
What I recommend is geriatric psych and or memory care where she does not have a phone in the room but can make calls out when she asks staff. She is already abusing her phone and it needs a drastic change. Obviously you will need to fib to meet her reality or if you continue to be nice....well it is not working now.

Just throwing this out there . . . How does your Mom think her life would be different if she HAD been a beneficiary to the will? Is it possible to let her THINK she is? I have read that, if it does no harm, you can “go with the flow” of memory loss and confabulation and let her believe what she wants. It sounds like she is hurt emotionally that her brother didn’t leave her anything, not that she needs the money or property??? I agree that Memory Care would be helpful, but it is hard to think of moving her and spending the money when she is right next door. It sounds like it is time for YOU to decide what is best for you as the caregiver. If you choose to keep her home, then perhaps you need to find a way to accept her in the stage she is in. If you can, perhaps you can see a therapist that specializes in care for the caregiver. Blessings to you and your family. Keep us posted on your journey.

If she lives alone, it’s time for memory care or nursing home. Tell her, yes the estate is hers, but it’ll take a while to go through probate channels. And I totally agree with MiaMoor. When you take her to her new living arrangement say this is part of what the estate provided her and she should enjoy the “help” that’s all paid for.

A dementia patient can think some pretty outlandish things…you just have to go with it and if that includes lying to keep the peace, then by all means lie.

Personally, I would lie to her. A great big fat lie.

I would tell my mum, yes, you're right. The lawyers are sorting it out now, but it will take some time. In the meantime, let's sell your house and you can live in a lovely hotel (assisted living/memory care facility) while waiting for probate to be finalised.

And I wouldn't feel guilty about it, either. Anything to ease her mind and help persuade her to go where she will get the care she needs.

I would persuade her to give you POA so you can ensure that your mum stays somewhere that she is safe and not causing problems for her SiL. If not, lie through your teeth to make sure your mum is looked after appropriately.

Wow…very sad..My mom 90 told everyone {employees, church friends, pastor etc} how I “hired a hitman to kill her” while she was living in the assisted living unit..she had incredible details. She had a detailed description right down to her fighting him off and her yelling at him “my daughter has no money she can not pay you”! Then he walked away and felt sorry for her... Painful….I am a loving caring daughter who is her POA. I have taken care of her needs for 5 years. Now she is in a memory Care unit and appears to have forgotten that delusion. In your case just ride this out. Stop taking calls and visit . You can not help her. Eventually she will lose that memory. I learned to just listen and not respond to the craziness. Year 6 for me.

Sounds like your mom is well past the time she should be living alone. I don’t think you should try to be managing this yourself at this stage. Maybe getting her away from there will slow down her obsession with this particular delusion. Above all, don’t take it personally. This kind of thing is quite common.

Junie25
Dont engage with her on the topic. You won’t change her mind but it might help if you don’t respond. Please do t try to explain any of the details. Change the subject. My DH aunt was sure a neighbor had made sexual advances because he talked about his wife who had passed. She caught him putting food in her garage frig he intended as a gift. She sold the frig.
She kept her garage open during the day and visited with neighbors as they walked by. half the time she was wearing a thin cotton blouse that left little to the imagination so she might have flirted with him … sex was on her mind.
Another time she told everyone about obscene phone calls she never received. Her neighbor received one and told her about it. She took the experience as her own. I would not discuss it with her. Years later more than one of her caregivers asked me about the stories. She told them about the events but knew not to mention her stories to me. She believed them.
With her, the confabulation seemed to be a phase. Watch a few Teepa Snow videos on YouTube. You might find her methods helpful for talking to those with dementia.

Junie25, our mothers sound so similar. Mine’s 99, now in care, lost in her own world. She is more content and rarely talks about all the evils done to her by others. She speaks negatively about me, not recognizing me when I visit.

But for years she insisted she was fine, everyone else was wrong, even the 6 o’clock news was wrong about the date and time, the weather was wrong for the season, etc. She’d scream “Who is paying you to make me think I’m losing my mind?!?” So combative. She told me (as a child) that she had never been wrong about anything and still holds onto that belief.

I had had to wait for a crisis to get her removed from her house and discharged from the hospital into care. Document her behaviours and present your findings to her Dr. Have all your ducks in a row, ready to take advantage of any chance to move her into care or have caregivers come in.

My bedridden mother insists she is constantly travelling and her care home is a bed and breakfast. I’m just glad she’s no longer as angry.

1. It sounds like mom is living alone. Not a good idea for many reasons safety is the first she can have a fall, she could turn water on and leave it on, the stove, furnace....
Living alone she may dwell on these thoughts and they have become an obsession.
2. Talk to her doctor about medications for her anxiety and agitation.
Keep in mind that many medications can make mom a fall risk so please read the above comment.
3. Even an Adult Day Program would keep mom involved and active so she would not continue to obsess. But please consider Memory Care or having caregivers with her.

My mom's delusions had her doing things that she should not. She believed someone was forcing her to leave her house, and she packed up the things that were important to her in her car and went to a hotel. She thought that she was in a casino hotel in downtown Toledo and called me to come get her (I lived 1.5 hours away at that time). I was worried since she was mixed up with phone and computer scammers. Thankfully, she was at a hotel only 10 minutes from her house, and all was OK at the house. But I knew then and there that she could not be allowed to live alone in her house any longer. She isn't the mom that I had growing up, and I mourn that. But she is safe in a MC not 10 minutes from my home, and I can easily see her and follow her care with the staff. Action needed to happen, and I did what was needed for her to be safe and cared for. It can be a very emotional deciduous. Don't let that deter you.

Has your mother always held onto perceived sleights, long before dementia? Mine has, and would expect to complain about her (long dead) in-laws every day, for hours at a time. If I said I had things to do or places to be, she’d call me selfish. Like with you, it wasn’t obvious when she transitioned from being a constant complainer, martyr and victim to having ridiculous delusions. When she crossed from repetitive complaining about the sleights to tales of acquaintances using her house for daily parties, etc, her dementia became more obvious. She’s now in care and I am finding hundreds of notes all over her house.

Talk to her doctor about calming meds. Better that she not live in such an anxious, angry state.

My mom is 91 also. 

I want my mom back too but I know this will keep getting worse. I read the findings of her CT & MRI and I hit a place of such profound sadness over that. The "deep and subcortical white matter" explained so many of her symptoms and why I would never have my mom back to the way I once knew her. It put me in an entirely different place of acceptance, patience, and compassion. Have you gotten any tests done on your mom yet?

My mom is in there. I can reason with her. I can get her to understand these things she’s saying are obviously untrue, I can get her to see that. Yep, I used to be that way too. She listens, she scrunches up her eyes in confusion and says “So that didn’t happen?” I gently tell her no and she twirls her finger on the side of her head indicating she’s “crazy” and I just tell her she’s not and she has a little memory loss and it’s okay. Then the entire thing repeats again within a minute. 
 
You said “she doesn’t have to be so angry and sad, if I could only get through to her.” This is a brain disease. You may be able to get a moment of clarity from time to time but it won’t last. I don’t think you’ve fully accepted it yet. Maybe you never will but I hope you will. It truly makes things a bit less hectic in your head space. 

You don’t have to be at a loss on how to help her. Make sure she is safe and comfortable. Keep removing the notes as best you can and throw them away. Or write your own post-it notes “Bill left his entire estate to his wife Mary” and stick them wherever. Fight fire with fire? Is that bad advice? I don’t know but it’s the truth and maybe she’ll see it enough times to help reduce her anger. 

You mentioned she is in “her house.” I take it you’re okay with this for now? Seems risky to me given her mental state. 

Mom needs med(s) to calm her down .
She should not be living alone .

Give her a copy of her deceased brother’s will to read , read , read , over and over again . Leave it with her . Don’t discuss it . Just tell her to read the will whenever she starts in about it .

We had to do this with my father in law regarding his lease in assisted living . He was fixated on certain things .

After awhile he stopped obsessing over them .

Good luck .

How far into delusions and confabulations can they go? As far as their minds will let them.

In our case - we were already fighting a losing battle - as my FIL had NPD well before he was diagnosed with dementia - so we had years of deciphering reality from fantasy. My FIL lived in a world of his own creation and the rest of us were merely players in it to ensure that his needs were met, so if he believed something to be true, then it was true.

When we layered dementia over the NPD, it actually went from frustrating for us (and anger inducing) to just incredibly sad. Now he was trapped inside of his mind with his own delusions and no one could actually execute the tasks he demanded on a regular basis. At least before with the NPD we could sort of pick and choose what we could or should help with. With the dementia delusions and confabulations it rose to an entirely new level.

And once they get something in their head - no matter how many people might tell them it is untrue, or how much proof you might be able to offer them, there will be no getting it out of their heads.

When we moved my FIL to the nursing home - it was with his FULL consent. He wasn't happy about it, no one ever is. But he agreed to it because he knew there were no other options. HE even signed the paperwork on admission day (he was not yet diagnosed with dementia)

Admittedly - he was never happy there - of course. But after about a month something changed significantly. Suddenly he was seeing snakes coming out of walls, going to late night parties in the woods by way of old, abandoned tunnels, and finding himself locked in church basements ( all from his bed that he chose to never leave). All of these things were very real and there was NO convincing him that they did not happen no matter how irrational or how much proof to the contrary.

But the one that he locked in on that gave us the most grief, was the delusion/confabulation that we basically dropped him off in a hellhole and never looked back. His story was that we never visited (even when we were right in the room with him), never talked to him on the phone (call records sometimes logged upwards of 25+ calls a day across 4 adults with him), that we just dumped him off and ran (which is what he did to his own mother, but I digress). We had left him in the worst place imaginable and they left him in his room with no one coming in for HOURS (it would be a different number every time he told the story, with the total increasing each time). He managed to convince his long distance sister of this so much that she called our local Ombudsman to report the facility and told them that SHE was his NOK because his kids had abandoned him there.

But he was fully committed to it - when he wasn't in our presence. If he brought it up to him - anyone who had told us that was lying to us. He never did any of it.

But similar to you - there was NO getting through to him. Because you can't. Once dementia sets in - the person you knew your mother to be isn't there any longer. It's frustrating and will drive you crazy. But you can't hold her to the same standards of "normalcy" because for her - this is reality.

What worked best for us was when the doctor finally prescribed something to keep FIL calmer. There were fewer crazy calls, he wasn't exaggerating about the lack of care as often, and he didn't look at us like he hated us every time we walked in the door.

The issue here is how to calm mother down FROM her delusions, nothing else. Get her doctor involved to write a prescription for Ativan or something similar to help her relax. Hopefully she has a doctor or neurologist and a diagnosis ......

Is she living alone at home that she's calling you 96x in a day? If so, the poor woman needs in home care to distract her or Memory Care Assisted Living to keep her occupied.

These are the ways to help your mother. Wishing to have her back like she was isn't happening as dementia is a progressive and terminal disease. "Getting through to her" isn't possible either because she cannot process new information. Her mind is stuck in HER reality, so for all intents and purposes, she's been robbed of her inheritance and nothing will change her mind. Meds will calm down the loop thinking though, so that's how you can help her. And see to it she's NOT living alone anymore, if she is.

Pick up a copy of the book Understanding the Dementia Experience by Jennifer Ghent-Fuller on Amazon so you can learn about dementia and how to deal with your mother and cope yourself. How to care for her properly and set realistic expectations for her behavior as well.

Best of luck to you.

IMO this is an anxiety and not good for Mom if it continually upsets her. I so hope she sees a Neurologist so he/she can prescribe something to calm her down.

You still have your mother, but she's different. You seem to be doing everything you can to accommodate her delusions, and that's what they are - delusions. You're even backing off, and I suggest you do even more of that.

I hope she's in memory care. She'd not capable of living alone now because you never know in what direction her mind will take her. She could easily branch off into sub-delusions, new topics, and so on. Someone needs to be with her 24/7.

My mother had many delusions, one of which was a dragon or dinosaur that lived on her porch. She was very afraid of it! No telling what she'd have done if she'd been alone, because she was sure it was going to hurt her. She might have tried to attack it. So take the delusions seriously and make sure your mom is safe.

Best of luck in dealing with this difficulty.

Yes, in advanced dementia, it is very common. And very sad. Makes you, during those 96 phone calls, want just to set the phone down, let her talk, and do the chores, doesn't it?

There's nothing you an do. You cannot convince her. You cannot stop her obsessions. You can speak to her doctor if the delusions and obsessions are too trying for her, but at her age seems it is a cause to keep living. 91 ain't nothin............

You are very descriptive in your telling us. Now copy this onto a sheet of paper and off you go to the doctor. Ask him if there's ANYTHING to try to lessen her anxiety and obsession. Some docs even try medical marijuana, and I kid you not. My friends Mom is on it in a TX . nursing home and it has made all the difference for her. Some try a mild anti-depressant. Sometimes that goes South and makes it worse. But at this point there needs to some relief.

I wish I had more than
1. This is normal
2. Talk to your doctor.
Sadly I don't, and can only wish you luck and if you find something DO let us know what helped.

I hope your mother is not living alone in her house. Based on what you've said here she belongs in a memory care facility.

There is nothing you can do to dissuade her from any of the asinine delusions she rants about. Do not validate any of these delusions about your uncle's estate. Refuse to discuss anything related to it with her and look at some memory care facilities.

I was an in-home caregiver for 25 years, It's okay to validate some dementia delusions a person has if they are harmless and don't get them upset. I had one client who thought she was secretly married to Elvis Presley. So we went along with it because it made her happy. When she'd start up with her neighbor spying on her nonsense, us caregivers would tell her simply once or twice "that's not true" then completely ignore her until she stopped with it. Don't validate your mother's ranting delusions about her brother's estate because giving it attention will only fuel the fire. Ignore it.

Yes this sure can happen, I'm not sure if you can do anything about it except either 1) put up with it and find ways to ignore it or distract; or 2) ask the doctors for anti delusional medication.

I'm interested to see other advice that others post.....