My husband's father is an alcoholic and is now elderly and lives on his own. My husband grew up in an abusive alcoholic home where the kids were not cared for and often went without food or clothing. His father was working but spent his paycheck at the bar for alcohol and gambling the same day he got it. As soon as my husband was old enough to leave, he did. We met, married and made it our mission to have a safe, non toxic home for our kids. We had been in touch with addiction professionals who encouraged us to set healthy boundaries with his family to keep our kids safe which meant not having a relationship with his family while they were in addiction, codependency and chaos. His mother died several years ago and there are two other siblings who are still living in the dysfunctional way they grew up.
My FIL would sponge money off his mother, my DH's grandmother, her entire life and when she died, he sponged money off his two sisters, my DH's aunts, and continues to do so. They all enabled him, gave him money, cars, a house, paid his utilities when he couldn't, all while he was still drinking heavily every day. The aunts have said many times they are glad my husband got out and changed his life from what he grew up in.
Fast forward about 30 years and my FIL is living in his home and his daughter is his primary care giver. She also has a history of not working much and sponging off the aunts.
A few weeks ago we were contacted by one of aunts, now in her 80's, explaining that my husband's sister was in the hospital and as a result, she was not able to get food to my FIL and would we mind getting him something. We reluctantly agreed, because he is elderly and we couldn't in good conscience let him go without food. We had not seen him in many years and he never contacts us. Neither does my DH's sister. DH took him food and saw that he was living in a dirty house with poor hygiene, as he always had. (that's how my DH grew up too) But we emailed the aunts to ask them if anyone has looked into plans for him and to explain his living conditions.
One aunt wrote back and addressed our questions and basically said that he is an adult that chooses to live like that, which we know. We just wanted to make them aware he was still the same. The aunt said that one of them was coming in spring to check on him. (they both live far away) She also said that his caregiver was discharged and able to go back to caring for him.
Then on Friday, we got a call from my FIL telling us he needs food. I asked him where his daughter was and he said she doesn't have any money because she's been off work. I asked him where his pension and social security is and he said he won't get SS until the middle of the month. I said we will get him some food and I asked if he mind if I contact some agencies to see if he can get aid. He said "go ahead, but I think I make too much money". He also told me that his daughter took him out earlier to "buy beer and cigarettes". My DH called her and told her that she is his caregiver and that he needs food. She got defensive with him and said she is not his caregiver. ?? She is on his bank account with him and pays his bills. She also takes him to doctor's appts, etc. She took him food and so did we. His father was under the impression that the aunts were paying us to bring him food, which we told him we were not. My DH's sister told him that.
I called aging adult services today and they basically told me he is an adult who is able to make his own decisions, spend his money the way he wants and has not been declared mentally incompetent. She went further to suggest that we start to try to have a relationship with him to make sure to remind him to eat or take him for groceries when he gets a check. !? We spent our whole lives trying to get away from the alcoholic enabling atmosphere and my FIL has had a lifetime of never having to do anything for himself; he has always had someone take care of him. We don't know what our legal obligations or protections are.
I called an addiction support to ask them how we are responsible if he chooses to spend his money on alcohol, cigarettes and gambling. She said alcoholism is the same whether a person is 20 or 70 and they don't have many elderly clients because of insurance. She suggested we contact a lawyer to see what we are responsible for. We feel like we are being forced to establish a relationship with him and take on responsibility that is not ours just because he is elderly and we don't want to be accused of being neglectful. Do we have to provide food for him after he spends his money on his addictions? Are we responsible for a person who has never cared about us? It's only now, that his sisters are older and can't provide much, that he contacted us. He also has several outstanding loans and debt. The aunts tried to help with bankruptcy but he bailed on that because he wants to be able to get more loans if he can.
You might want to contact Meals on Wheels and get that information to Aunt who can set that service up.
Addiction is very sad and destructive.
When I spoke to the agency, I could tell they had a file on my FIL. She mentioned things that I didn't tell her, like his age, and asked me to confirm his address. I asked her if she had a file on him and she hesitated, and I said "you're not allowed to tell me, right?" and she said "yes". I said "well if you have a file on him make sure to note that I called for information to help him with food". I plan on getting that information to his caregiver when I receive it in the mail and then we're done. I'm not going to be put in the position of having to feed him because he chooses to spend his money on beer, cigarettes and gambling. He can somehow take the bus to his "clubs" to drink every day, but can't take it to go to the store? We know seniors can ride for free.
I felt like the agency person was pushing us to make sure he has food. She even said that we could call him when we know he gets his check and offer to take him to the store so he could buy himself groceries. We can't do that with a person who is practically a stranger. And a stranger who is very selfish and destructive to boot! I know that their priority is to make sure the elderly person is taken care of, but some situations are complicated, like ours.
He is an adult capable of making his own decisions and has not been declared incompetent. He has another adult living with him with a pattern of supervision, let her get on with it. She has no money so tell her to get her a** down to social security and apply for some temporary help till she starts working again. There are also free food banks all over the place and HEAP to help with heating .Most weeks one church or other hosts a free dinner or breakfast there is usually a free will offering. One church near us offers free soup and sandwich once a week and the senior center has a low cost lunch every day. there are also very low cost frozen meals. I know Banquet meals usually sell for $1 or less. I saw loaves of bread in Walmart today for $1 each and day old bakery very cheap. Chicken was 69 cents a pound and other stores usually have fruit and veg marked down if they are getting old.
Stop or don't start enabling FIL he is perfectly able to do things for himself. He obviously won't nor will SIL as long as family members are ready to respond to a phone call.
Never mind what he has done in the past. This has nothing to do with punishing him. It is about his current situation and behavior. Don't even think about feeling guilty or sorry for him he has been playing his family like a fiddle all your lives so don't join the band.
Prepare for your proceedure on Wed and concentrate on recovering and interacting with your own family. He has plenty of other people in his life to manipulate, you have both worked hard to overcome hubby's early struggles and done an excellent job so don't jeapodise it now.
I had alcoholic parents so I feel for you. They can be very manipulative and often will "confuse" the situation to make it better for themselves.
It is a struggle to tear away from their unhealthy lifestyle. Your husband is to be commended on staying away to keep himself and his family mentally healthy. Why start up now?
Do what you can by calling Meals on Wheels and give the options above (that Veronica mentioned) to his dad and sister.
Then BOW OUT. Do not answer the phone or e-mails. Don't feel guilty. You've got more than enough on your plate. If any agency contacts you (and you unfortunately pick up the phone), tell them you are taking care of YOUR elderly parents, have a chronic illness, are going for surgery, you have 3 children and your doctor has warned you not take on any more responsibility.
Ask them to remove your names from any list with your FIL's name on it. Yes, the Aging Adult Services will take ANY opportunity to NOT have to get government services involved.
Free yourselves from this trap 'early' (now) in the game. You are overtaxed and can't do any more. Keep you and your husband's promise on how to raise your family.
Your FIL is making his own choices. That's his business, not yours.
Good luck with your surgery. Rest a lot afterwards and don't be too quick to get back into your regular routine.
A social worker or other social services employee would, of course, like a family member -- any family member -- to take responsibility. One less case for them. Hospital discharge people do the same thing -- try to guilt the family member to take the patient into their home even when that would clearly not be best for anyone. Gets them out of the hospital, though.
This man makes too much money to qualify for help. And he can't afford food? Definitely not your problem.
Detach. Stay away.
I wish I would've known how they operate before I called them because I never would have. But now I'm understanding why she was telling me to start a relationship with him and I'm feeling better about going back to the "no contact" position.
DH has said he is going to contact his aunts and tell them that we are out of the picture and don't want to hear anything about his father and not to contact us to get him anything. We are even considering changing our phone number.
My DH's brother has now started sticking his nose in. He contacted one of my children (shes an adult) on facebook and told her to have my DH call him. We told her to delete the message (after she screen shot it) and block him. There is no need to reply to him. This shows the level of dysfunction, that they would try to get to us through our children. They would not know any of my kids if they passed them on the street but they feel they have the right to contact them and demand they share a message with us?!
Take note of SueC and bow out. Change your number if you have to.
My dad was an alcoholic and it was not good. I left home at 15. Lonely but the safest and best move I could have made at the time. Just to leave you with a smile. Dad did (once) give me a birthday present - a fork
Good Luck
I agree with everyone else - run! Protect yourselves and go back to no contact. {Hugs}
And read about FOG (fear, obligation, and guilt).
Concentrate on your marriage and children. Good luck on your procedure, rest up physically and mentally!
Hugs💜
I had my procedure yesterday and am doing well, despite the stress. DH contacted his aunts (the enablers) and told them that he has spent the past 30 years getting away from the dysfunction of the neglectful, abusive alcoholic environment and he will not be dragged back in. His father has money to live and has means to get to the bar and convenience stores for alcohol, the store for cigarettes and lottery tickets so he has the means and money to also get food and other necessities. He also said that he has a caregiver, his daughter. He told them that we are caring for our own needs and do not want to be contacted by his father, brother or sister. We have only had a handful of contact with his family (other than the aunts) over the past 30 years. One aunt wrote back that she understands and is trying to stop enabling her brother this year and the other feels bad because it was she who initially contacted us in January that he was out of food. We think that because the aunts are trying to step back from all the financial support he is feeling the pressure of using his own money and is looking at us to continue enabling where the aunts left off. The less he has to do and the more people that can take care of him has been the pattern of his whole life. That is not happening!
We also found out that FIL was under the impression that the aunts were paying us to give him food. His daughter, DH's equally dysfunctional sister, told him that. She either assumed that was the case or she outright lied to him. DH told his father when he dropped the food off on Friday that no one paid us or gave us money buy food. His father then offered to pay for it. ??? Remember, he said he didn't have money until the 14th. He did lie to us and he probably thought we were taking over getting him food because the aunts were paying us to do it.
I have a friend who works in a nursing home that said that if an elderly person contacts us in need of food, if we don't get him food and something happens to him we can be arrested. Is that true? It really upset me!
We had another family member tell us that we need to contact a lawyer to go over what our legal responsibilities and rights are. We don't have the money for that and I'm not working right now because of my disease.
We had another friend mention that his daughter is probably stealing from him and we should report her. ??? How in the world would we know that?! She is on his bank account and she pays for his bills. He is a grown man, not declared incompetent and has the right to do with his money anything he wants. We have no legal right to ask him about his finances and we don't want to get involved. Does that mean we are negligent? These people are basically strangers to us. I think the whole issue of him asking for food is what's leading people to think that. Even the social services lady told me that we have no rights to ask him about his finances and he can do what he wants with his money, including spend it on beer and cigarettes over food.
MACinCT: He may have been telling the truth on the middle of the month SS check. My mom and dad who are both on SS confirmed that there are two times in a month that the checks go out. However.... he told me on the phone that he gets his pension the first of the month, which means he would've had it in his account when he called me.
BuzzyBee: I am sorry for anyone who has had to grow up in that environment. I know the struggles my DH has had, and emotions he still deals with occasionally. His mother, who died 11 years ago and was equally dysfunctional, never bought him a Christmas or birthday present or contacted him on his birthday except for one time. She brought a present over to the house (I think it was a pair of socks) TWO MONTHS before his actual birthday! She did not even remember when her own son's birthday was!
Bella7: I started to look up FOG today, thank you!
People that we know who have not experienced a situation like this can't understand how we've had to distance ourselves. A relative told me we should still take him food once in a while! It's hard to explain to people who know us as kind people who have been involved in community service like volunteering at a soup kitchen. How can we feed strangers and not a person who is "technically" related to us. (at least that's what they think)
We can handle the judgement, mostly because we know they can't understand. But the legal parts of it, or what people are telling us, is upsetting. We don't know if it's true or not.
You did right to walk away many years ago--and you did right to check up on him. BUT, don't do it again. You can get drawn in so easily and before you know it, you're in the midst of the hot mess that is that family.
My sweet DIL came from a family where drug abuse, alcoholism and welfare were the norm. None of her sibs even graduated HS. The sisters were both pregnant and on meth...the brother, in and out of jail (currently in prison) ever since he was 13.
DIL looked at her family and said "I can't wind up like that". She moved out right after HS and lived with a "mentor"--flash fwd 20 years, and she is now an anesthesiologist, ex-Navy Lt Commander, mother to 4 beautiful kids and a wonderful wife to my son-- lives 1000 miles from her toxic family (sadly, from us too) and only deals with her family on an absolute need-to-be-there situation. She does give them a lot of money, but she's learning to set some boundaries and realizes she cannot "fix" her family. And throwing money at them is pointless.
Choosing to step away from a toxic family is very hard, but is often the only way to maintain your own sanity.
The social services lady had a lot of nerve telling you to get groceries for FIL, then, didn't she?
I was not asking for sympathy. I was just letting you know you are NOT alone and giving you a smile.
Well done to you both. If thy eye offend thee cut it out. Replace eye with FIL.
Think of yourself and ALL your family. He has other family to look our for him - let them.
Take care HUGS
CTTN55: Yes, she had a lot of nerve. My DH was furious when I told him, and the more I think about it the more angry it makes me. She was telling me to get him groceries "off the record" so to speak. Her words were "you seem like a nice person so I'm going to give you some advice...." She went on to tell me that I can stop over to check on him, take him out for groceries when we know he gets his check before he spends it on alcohol, call him and remind him to eat (!), make sure he gets ready to eat items...etc. She also told me that either meals on wheels or the frozen food service they offer (I can't remember which) has a sliding fee scale based on income. If he can't get meals for free, he can pay a reduced rate, or something like that. That made me wonder if when he said he doesn't qualify if he meant he would have to pay something, which he doesn't want to do. He wants people to give him food and save his own money for alcohol, etc.
She also told me he has the right to refuse any contact with us or talk to us. But she said we can still try to form a relationship with him so we can help him. (??) She put me on the defensive right from the beginning by asking why we haven't checked on him before because we live in the same town. That's one of the reasons why I was wondering if we can get in trouble legally.
BuzzyBee: Thank you for your kindness! :o)
My DH is thinking that his father won't try to contact us again. First because he now knows that no one but us paid for the food we gave him twice and no one made it our "job". And he's sure the aunts have told him to leave us alone too. He never contacted us before as a father or part of a family and he won't do it again for those reasons. He doesn't care about us or anyone other than what they can give him.
Rest well knowing you have nothing to worry about from that front. May God bless you and your family and heal your body.🌹
Your FIL has an income... and as so many have pointed out, it's not your responsibility to make sure he spends it on food rather than his addiction. Sometimes you just have to be tough... and not regret it. There are so many food banks in this country, many of which don't even check financials, that there's no reason he should be without canned soup at the very least.
If you believe he's living in a dangerous situation (hygiene, cleanliness, nutrition, etc.) you might want to call the PA Area Agency on Agency protective services (800) 490-8505. And then have nothing more to do with him or the rest of the family that suddenly wants you involved because you'll be sucked into that black hole and might never get out.... even after he dies, it sounds like the daughter will be next in line to be supported by you.
That said, I think u have gotten good information. I would think you have it documented all the therapy you have gone thru and the doctors written reports so if any agency starts to push you can prove it was recommended ur family have no contact with this man. And yeah for ur husband. Fil's family have enabled him too long. It's called tough love. I would change ur phone number. Hopefully, you have caller ID and can ignore the calls for now.
When u can, call ur office of Aging and ask for their booklet of services. Find out where there r Food Closets in the area. Give this info to his caregiver. Like said, if he can get out for his beer, cigs and gambling he can go pick up a bag of food. I worked for a Food Closet and I have seen it all. Had a woman come in for food and I helped her carry it to the car. She opened the back door and on the floor was a carton of cigs. They probably cost $50 or $60 dollars. FOOD MONEY. As my boss would say, it's between them and God.
Tekkiechikk: "If you believe he's living in a dangerous situation (hygiene, cleanliness, nutrition, etc.) you might want to call the PA Area Agency on Agency protective services"
The area agency on agency is who I called. I explained the situation of him asking for food and she's the one who gave her "advice".
My FIL has always lived in a filthy house; that's the environment my DH grew up in. There were always dirty dishes in the sink, filthy bathroom, etc. We don't know what the inside of his house looks like now but I'm sure it's the same as he has always lived. Same with hygiene. He's always drunk and neglects his personal hygiene. He is skinny but apparently his doctor has said he's fine health wise. I told the agency woman about him calling us for food and she said he doesn't sound like he's in danger, (because he had food, shelter, not incompetent, etc and I asked him if he needed medical help and he said no) so it didn't sound like he needed a wellness (welfare? I can't remember the word she used) check. But if we thought he was in danger at some point in the future we can call the police and have them check him. But she said he can just tell them he's fine and not let them in if he wanted to.