My husband and I have been with my 90 year old parents since before Thanksgiving. It is now January 2nd. My husband had to go home to work in another state. My mom got a respiratory infection and was sent to the hospital due to fluid in her extremities and low oxygen. She’s now on oxygen. I stayed behind to care for her and help out my Dad. I thought that she would get better in a few weeks. It’s not the oxygen problem that she can’t deal with when I leave, it’s that she can’t reach back to wipe her rear because she’s too heavy in her stomach. Granted she’s sitting on a high toilet seat with grab bars, but even before we got that, she didn’t want to wipe herself. Then she wants me to bring her a bed pan into the kitchen while my Dad was cooking in the kitchen, also outside on the common area balcony in front of her door, in the living room - to urinate instead of walking to the bathroom. My Dad said she gets out of bed on her own, wipes herself upfront and gets back into bed by herself. When my wonderful husband told her Mom you need to start trying to become independent again like you were, she went crazy on him and told me go home to your husband. He is the most compassionate person in the world. My mom said to him I want to thank you for you giving up your wife - what does this mean? For how long does she think I’m going to stay around just to wipe her? She said I would never have your father to that. I don’t like to use my father’s car so I’m trapped. I also brought my puppy who needs exercise. She told me don’t be long walking him. Also, she’s supposed to be losing weight and she’s eating cookies, etc. So why do I have to wipe her if she can’t reach back because she’s heavy and she’s not helping herself? My husband and I are in our 60’s and about to retire and she won’t even walk to help herself! It’s so unfair! I bought her a tool to help her reach back and she doesn’t want to try it. If she can’t wipe herself now, I can’t just live with her to just stay around to wipe her. So sorry everyone! PS I had breast cancer and need to go to my doctors too.
My Mom lies sometimes and says my Dad said something that he didn’t say. It was a manipulation tactic. Not saying your Mom is lying because I don’t know of course. But she may be lying or exaggerating. Anyway at the end of the day you can’t make anyone else happy.
Yes as you stated you are calling too much. I would cut that down to once a day immediately and go from there.
Max, your father needs to check into Aid and Attendance benefits right away.
The next time mom calls, I want you to have a script ready.
"Mom, I am having some health issues and we won't be coming to visit for the foreseeable future. Given how much help both you and dad need, and given that you are both likely to start having more frequent health problems, the best decision will be for you to move into an Assisted Living Facility soon.
I know that's a big change and moving is a lot of work. There are companies you can hire to do that."
Practise this in front of a mirror.
Don't respond to any venom she spews at you, or to tears, or screaming.
Say "Mom, I love you, but we can't keep doing this "rescue" thing. Think about what I've said and we'll talk next week when you're calm."
My mom’s brother lived to be 96. He had Parkinson’s disease like my mom had.
He served in WW11, Korea and Vietnam. He had five children. None of his kids were his caregivers. He was cared for very well in a skilled nursing facility.
My cousins dearly loved and admired their dad but they lived their own lives. They buried him in his uniform.
What role do covert narcissistic mothers play?
- They play the role of the victim
- Daughters of narcissistic mothers often become enmeshed with their parent, losing contact with their true self and growing up without boundaries.
- Mom keeps the relational tension leash tight and doesn’t let up until you’ve shown your fealty to her. She keeps you second-guessing until you have figured out what she thinks you have done wrong and are working to get back in her good graces.
- Mind reading is a requirement to stay in Mom’s good graces. And since it is hell on earth to be outside of them, you are a willing student.
- Mom will say she loves all her children equally, but her actions tell a different story.
- Because she is used to putting Mom’s needs ahead of her own, she has normalized much of Mom’s behavior.
- With a “you know how your mother is,” the expectation is that she will get her way no matter the cost.
- When you are raised by a mother who is either high in these Covert Narcissistic Traits or has full-blown NPD, your self-esteem suffers; you doubt yourself constantly.
- they are passive-aggressive and use manipulation to get their way instead of bullying and overt force.
- Covert narcissists are also known as vulnerable or inverted narcissists.
- Volatility, instability, mood swings, and the lack of resilience, are all traits of a mother with BPD.
- A covert narcissist is a narcissist who disguises their need for power, admiration, and entitlement by appearing meek and vulnerable. Underneath it all, they are both driven to cover up their insecurity- just in seemingly opposite ways.
Every bit of this is from a single article - 12 Unmistakable Signs of a Covert Narcissistic Mother -
https://daughtersrising.info/2021/04/09/covert-narcissistic-mother/
Daughters of narcissistically defended mothers typically sacrifice their own emotional authenticity in order to keep their mothers happy. In short, they don't know how they feel. They only know how they should behave in order to fulfill Mom's needs and how they should make her feel.
Max, please wake up. Please realize what you are dealing with. For your own sake. For your husband's sake. At the very least it helps to know what you are dealing with so that you can deal with it head on. I know you love your mother. But at some point- she is going to need more than even you can give her. And then what?
This was Max's first post from the year Dec 2015! Thats 7 years ago. Not all of us were members back then. I am pretty sure she got the same suggestions back then she is getting now. Max seems to want to change 90 yr old parents but what she needs to change is her and how she responds to her parents.
I can see how this all started. Only child, no children. Getting together for vacations and visits. That was OK when parents were young but they are no longer young. And now Max is a senior too with health problems that her parents don't seem to think is serious.
Max, you need to learn how to deal with 2 elderly people that you did not make needy but as my daughter says "you made these monsters". Its going to be hard to set boundries but u need to. Your parents need Assisted living. There is no way you can plan on living in Europe with your parents on their own. And I think it will never happen if your parents don't make changes. I asked this before, do they realize how serious your cancer is? You have to hit the 5 yr mark to be able to say ur cured. You need therapy NOW. Stop procrastinating. (I am one)
What you need is to sit your parents down, look them in the eye and say, you need to go into Assisted Living because I can no longer be at your beck and call. I have breast cancer. Yes, I am doing well but there are no guarantees. And because of that, I need to travel with my husband and do things for us. Explain to them that they are putting undo stress on you. I don't think you are taking your health serious enough.
Yeah, we have all struggled in one way or another.
It sounds like you are dealing with anticipatory grief. I went through this too.
We grieve for when they could do for themselves and enjoy their lives.
We know that their quality of life has diminished and that they will be dying in the not too distant future.
So, we start the grieving process before they actually die.
We are all very sad that you are struggling and I wish you peace as you continue on.
Still, there isn’t any need to take your frustration out on Max.
Everyone has struggled with one thing or another. Did you forget that Max has upcoming oncology appointments? Her life hasn’t been easy. I would classify dealing with cancer a ‘real’ problem. Wouldn’t you?
I sincerely hope that things will improve for you. Take care of yourself.
It is a good idea for you to skip this thread since it seams to annoy you so much.
FOG isn’t something that people get over very quickly.
If you haven’t experienced it, fantastic! If you have, you should know what it is like. Does anyone resolve their issues overnight?
Look at how long some people stay in a bad marriage before getting divorced? These things can take time. It’s wonderful when they do get divorced and get their lives back. That is the bottom line.
Some people stay attached to their parents longer than others. Hopefully, one day they will break free. Let’s hope that they decide on their own, rather than waiting for death. People are living longer lives than they were years ago.
Ignore remarks accusing you of being a troll. Or throw it right back, you could say, “How do I know that you aren’t a troll?”
No one knows anything unless they have met up with someone in person! So, don’t be concerned about what others think.
As long as you know what is true, isn’t that all that matters?
There is an advantage in going to in person caregiver support groups. We are seeing people face to face. It’s nice. I was happy that I found an in person group that was led by a social worker who had a lot of experience.
There are long time caregivers who were stuck for various reasons. I know because I was one of them. So, we can’t automatically assume someone is a troll.
If people are real, it’s great that they are asking for help. They also need help from a therapist. Most people on the forum have suggested therapy to many posters that are stuck from FOG.
It’s frustrating if people don’t understand what is being said to them. This happens all the time. It doesn’t have to be an online forum to experience it.
You didn't make her needy.
Either she asked you to do this or you volunteered because you thought she needed company. Because she acted like she did.
Your mother is like a deep black hole of need that YOU didn't cause. She is made this way, either because of the trauma of her childhood, genetics or some combination of the two.
The question on the table is how do you get your life back.
You start with therapy, because at this point, Max, your likely depend upon being able to put YOUR needs before hers.
I totally agree with you about this whole story being a farce and likely even some troll just having a laugh. Now I think on it, I agree with what you say here most of the time.
Reading and posting helps pass the long hours I spend in the office alone.
If 'Max' is who she says she is (and is in fact even a 'she') and her story is true she should consider actually writing a book of excuses.
I say that book would be a best-seller because I've never seen a person who has one for everything.
I would love for you to start valuing yourself for the wonderful woman that you are.
If you don’t see your own worth, you can’t possibly show your worth to your mom and dad.
You say that you canceled dates to be with your mom. I have to tell you that I would never in a million years expect my daughters to cancel dates for me.
Unless it was an emergency, I seriously doubt that they would even consider canceling a date. I raised them to be independent and think for themselves.
Whenever I invited them to dinner or whatever, I always stressed to them that if they couldn’t come over it was absolutely fine.
My parents and in-laws were the same way with us. They invited us over but we were never asked to cancel anything to be with them.
Why would you cancel a date? What did your dates think of you canceling to be with your parents?
Don’t you see how selfish it was for your mom to expect you to cancel a date?
You say that you made her needy. No, you didn’t. She is selfish for feeling that her needs come before yours.
Your needs are important. Show her that you care about your own needs and DO NOT apologize for caring about yourself.
Just try it. I’m thinking of that stupid L’Oréal commercial, “Because I am worth it.” Hey, it’s their slogan but it’s your life. You are worth it!
You keep posting about how fabulous your parents are, what a great upbringing you had. Ad nauseum.
It's a tissue of lies.
You need some serious mental health intervention if you think it's a privilege to be paying your parents' mortgage because they gave all their funds to their mentally ill son.
Max, get yourself to your doctor TOMORROW and get followed up for your cancer dx.
THAT comes first.
Dogs and parents second.
I am beginning to doubt that max is 63 and her parents are in their nineties. Based on her writing style and phrasings. I estimate max to be in her early to mid twenties and parents in their mid to late sixties.
I asked max what her parents did everyday while she was there for close to 3 months and no reply but in other posts she said they are in great shape and don't look like they are in their nineties. Neither of which jive with her having to wipe moms behind or dad having to do it.
Build up your life separate from them, help them find care as they age - likely a facility. Your mum will have activities and other people there. Best thing for her and for you.
Look after her needs, not her wants.
Right now, max thinks and behaves like a 7 year old kid who has to ask and receive permissions from mommy and daddy before she can do anything.
She does very well with strangers though. Her Brooklyn NY toughness comes through loud and clear.
But mommy and daddy still keep her under their thumbs and that’s how they like it.
Until max views herself as an adult in front of her parents, nothing anyone says will do any good.
Absolutely, I agree! I have said time and time again that other people will view us the way we view ourselves.
If Max shows her parents that she is helpless, by not being able to stand up to them, then that is what they will believe.
Why wouldn’t her parents believe this? They are picking up on how she views herself and taking advantage of it.
I had a 55th class reunion this year. My DH and I agreed we were not going. My GF asked if I was going, I said No. She asked why and I said I don't want to. No long explanation, just I did not want to go. This is a friend I tried to get to a class reunion for 45 years and her answer was always just No not going. The 50th was her first.
I think actual roleplay, with a therapist, in person is needed to get it. To roleplay the push-react conversations - then stop, reflect & examine what happens.
I'll give you an example that made me 'get it'.
When a Councellor 'played' calling & asking for my help, it was really illuminating. Firstly I could see when a DIRECT request was made, I felt quite ok to be DIRECT with an honest answer back. Stating what I could or could not do.
Eg 1 "Can you drive me to the Doctor's this Friday at 3?"
"No, sorry. I am busy at that time."
Then clear communication could follow. Could I help if an alternative time was arranged? If not, then say so.
But when I corrected the Councillor to how a request like that was actually made.. the wording, the style.. A'HA!!
It was all HINTS. Nothing direct. Not honest clear communication.
Hints, like fishing hooks that caught me & I twisted myself up on the line.
Eg 2 "I have an appointment coming up... I'm not sure how I will get there.. (worried sad tone of voice)."
Me: REACTING to voice tone.
"Oh? Maybe I can help? When is it?".
CAUGHT.
(I had offered & may have guilt if I try to unhook).
The hints are used to manipulate.
To get you to do what they want. And they didn't even ASK?
YOU offered!
They trained you to bite that hook.
** I had to learn NOT to bite that hook **
Your mom can barely wipe herself and your dad can barely assist her with his health problems. I would continue assisting with the mortgage only as long as that comes with home care and cameras that answer to you. It’s that, or they can’t live there anymore. It’s not safe. I know you see that, but trust that you can see that there are other alternatives.
Were I you, I’d ask my parents to sign a will codicil saying that you’re at least to be reimbursed for the mortgage and things with receipts…at least.
They both need help. He’s old too and his needs seem to get glossed over for the mom’s needs.
The only viable solution is for them to be in a facility. Sadly, they are selfish and want their daughter to be their caregiver.
Try not to take her requests so seriously. She is using your new pup to manipulate you.
I can’t even imagine doing this to my daughter. She would have laughed at me if I tried this foolishness.
She can see the dog from a picture like I saw my daughter’s dog when she lived in Colorado.
There was another poster on another thread talking about how our therapists helped us.
I absolutely loved what her therapist said to her, “Don’t let the sharks see you bleed!” Great advice!
Do not let her see that she has power over you! Don’t give her any more ammunition!
"Somebody help me"?
Have you found a therapist?
Have you practised saying "no, Mom, I'm not coming until my oncologist gives the all clear; and when I DO come back, it will be for a week's stay at a hotel near you, not in your condo."
Start there.
Op, your mom is not going to "relax" or stop asking when you're coming back the moment you get home. This is the cycle, do you not recognize it?? Have you formulated no answers to those questions? Or try telling her the truth, like Barb suggested. You're way too available to mom to begin with! Try leaving the phone off the hook or turned OFF for a few days. Mom can scream bloody murder and you won't know it. Ignorance is bliss.
You say "someone help me!"
YOU try taking the FIRST step to breaking this dysfunctional cycle by not taking her calls for a few days. Can you do it? Or does mom remain in charge of your life forever?
Send her cute photos of him. I have two grown daughters but no grandchildren.
Well, my oldest daughter has cats and I get the most adorable photos sent to me. They are the sweetest kitties.
My youngest daughter has a beautiful Siberian husky. I can’t tell you how many photos I have of this dog! I fell in love with him. He is a wonderful dog!
I love receiving the photos on my iPhone. Hey, if mom doesn’t have a smartphone, print out a few pictures and send. Maybe frame a really cute photo of Romeo.
If you feel that this is a manipulation tactic and it probably is. I would still say, “Mom, Romeo is so cute. I just love him so much. He brings me so much joy! I’ll send photos so you can see for yourself.” The say, “Gotta run…Talk later!” Then hang up the phone!
Why get mad? Not worth it! Life is too short to get upset over her wanting only what she wants. You deserve a life too!
The fact that you love your parents does not equate to sitting still while mom verbally abuses or manipulates you.
Your mom doesn't need to get told/hear/ or acceptANYTHING you say. She will be angry.
Big deal.
If she needs care, she needs to find that care from someone else. It's just NOT your job.
She won't accept that. She won't be happy.
Again, you can't fix that. Her feelings are her own.
Best of all things to you.