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Maxi, GO HOME ALREADY!

Your mommy is mad because it has been so effective at keeping you dancing to her tune. You have been going through this for decades, I'm thinking you just want to rant and continue doing what mommy tells you. Rant away!
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You do need to be realistic. She isn't going to lose weight at 90 years old, nor is her level of independence going to do anything but decrease. It will never increase.

That said, it's time to work with Dad on what to do about Mom. Caring for her increasing needs is going to burn him out, and he may well die before she does. Her inability to clean herself will lead to infections and skin breakdown.

I was in your situation -- my mother was heavy, couldn't wipe herself, and it fell to me to do that. (My dad had his limits and that was it.) The problem was, I wasn't there but once a week. You can imagine how that went.

It's time to get Mom into some kind of care situation, whether it's home care or a facility.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@MJ

True, at 90 she isn't going to lose weight on her own. I'm sure she doesn't do the grocery shopping herself, so whoever is brining in all the cookies she stuffs herself with needs to stop.
She needs to understand that if she's too big to be cared for by homecare, she goes into a nursing home where there are no cookies. Not even one.
She'll either start being reasonable or she gets placed. If she's still in her right mind at all, she will get reasonable and cooperative with homecare aides coming to help.
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"My mother gets really upset if you disagree with her too. I’m so confused!"

This. ?

Why does this make you confused?

Q. If you LOVE someone - does this mean you need to OBEY their every want or wish?

I never promised in my wedding vows to OBEY my Husband. I never promised my folks or siblings to always obey their every request - from reasonable to rediculous.

I am free to say yes or no.

Others are free to say yes or no to my requests also.
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Actually, I do tell her off. She screams and says is that how you treat your mother?
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Beatty Jan 2023
Yes it is Mother. I treat you as an adult. Yet you are behaving as a toddler 😜
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Guys, you’re not going to believe this, but my Dad’s going to have a pacemaker put in and then in February it’s his 95th birthday. We’re really screwed. What happens now? My husband said he’s going to drive to Florida from Virginia and pick me up in 2 weeks. My husband wants my Dad to try to schedule the procedure while he’s here so he can help him. Once I go home I can’t come back and I’m going to hear it! My 1 year old Papillon cannot fly on a plane because he will bark Alford 2 hours straight. We would drive down, but that means when we get home we have to go back right away. Timing is so bad! I’m so scared! A side note, my parents provided me with such an interesting life, never leaving us at home when they traveled and we always went out with their friends. We are Italian American and love to cook together and eat together, and laugh together, but now I’m afraid that our lives will be cut short by caring for parents that feel because we were close to them emotionally that it’s owed. I will be seeking help. Thank you everyone!
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sp19690 Jan 2023
Dear god this is never going to end with your parents. You might as well sell your house and move in with them if you are going to be back in February helping dad again. If they need you to help them they are not independent and should not be living independently.

It is far past the time to talk to them both about moving into an assisted living facility. From here on out expect crisis after crisis with them.

95 and getting a pace maker is just insanity.
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I’m listening to my parents right now saying we traveled and we did it. No regrets that they can’t travel anymore. Do they realize what they are saying in front of 60 year olds who did travel, but still want to travel but for the fact we can’t because they need care? They did it and have no regrets that they can’t travel anymore. Oh my!
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Maximus, I don't know if anyone else does, but I get it.

You come from a boundary-less Italian family. I did too.

Here's the thing. If you WANT, you CAN change this dynamic. But it means YOU have to change.

AND it means that you need to be able to tolerate your parents' anger and angst.

Think about what you'd like to do.

There is a counseling group in Bay Ridge/Besonhurst stated by an Italian-American Social Worker to deal with exactly these issues. She started her agency to address the precise boundary-less-ness issues that exist in many families in the area. They do Zoom sessions. You might find some counseling like this useful. Let me know if you'd like the link.
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Beatty Jan 2023
What an excellent find!
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My mother used anger and guilt as a tool to manipulate people to do what she wanted them to do. Everyone is responsible for their own feelings. You are not responsible for your mother's anger. You didn't cause it and you can't control it or cure it.

Seems like you are caught in the fog - fear, obligation and guilt. You can walk away from that. it's hard changing patterns of a life time but it can be done. Therapy helps.

Why are you scared? Don't be afraid. You are doing what you reasonably can for them and for yourself and your hub. I think you are having some totally unreasonable expectations put on you. I gather you think that too. Time to break away from fear of your parents anger and other negative reactions. Detach emotionally, at least to some extent. That doesn't mean you don't love them, but that you don't let their emotions and choices affect you so much. Wishing you the best.
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maximus1 Jan 2023
Thanks so much! I just had a conversation with my husband about why I always needed to please my mom, not my father. Maybe I thought she was the best mom in the world, which she is to me and I think I owe her something, or maybe I never wanted her to be upset with me if I didn’t agree with her. I really hate that I am going on a public forum discussing my personal business, but I am desperate. Thank you once again to everyone!
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Here you go, Maximus:

https://bcsnygroup.com/appointments/?gclid=CjwKCAiAwc-dBhA7EiwAxPRylNyIvc_CnGg74tW1iDNx6m3kZ3Z2BlNDEmWgBcXqYC5IJg3cxQe9GxoCYGYQAvD_BwE

If they can't see you, call your regular doctor for a referral.
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maximus1 Jan 2023
Thanks so much Barb! When I return home, which now is Alexandria, VA right outside of Washington, DC, I’ll be definitely getting help.
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I am not Italian but had 2 Italian Aunts. And you are first generation American. I also live in a well populated Italian area. My one Aunt was first generation. Her parents coming over with 2 children in the 30s and having 3 more. I remember my Aunts mother, very stern. He Dad was a joy.

You go home with ur DH when he comes to get you. Sick or not, you cannot continue to live this way. Your Mom will manage because she has to. If she can't they will need to hire the people they need.

" I HAD BREAST CANCER - ONLY 3 YEARS IN REMISSION -I’M IN PAIN FROM MEDS AND HAVE EXTREME MENOPAUSE SYMPTOMS FROM THEM." Have you told your parents this? That you cannot continue doing for them because you have your own health issues? And now a respiratory infection. Tell your husband to come now.
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Hi Guys, can someone help me again? I mentioned that my Dad will be getting a pacemaker probably in February or March. My mom is still on oxygen and my husband is willing to help him during recovery as long as he isn’t traveling for work. My mom just said maybe you should stay. Be proud of me - I said no, I have my oncology appointments and I need an X-ray of my lungs to see if my cancer metastasized. She looked frantic. She said who’s going to wipe me? I answered the occupational therapist is going to teach you. I told my Dad I cannot live here just to clean mom up. He said don’t worry about it. Really? I’m so upset right now that she’s going to yell at me and be angry.
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lkdrymom Jan 2023
So she gets mad and yells at you? How old are you? Yell back at her. She gets to dictate how you live the first 18 years of your life. After that it is all up to you.
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So she gets mad at you.

So?

So what?

Your mother being angry at you isn't physically dangerous to you.

Ignoring your cancer symptoms and missing an Onco appointment IS dangerous.

You need to let your parents arrange their own care, or help them hire a geriatric care manager with THEIR money.
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max - You did good. Your needs have to come first.

My mother had a hip replacement at 99 and for several reasons I didn't drive down to help her. She hired someone for that. She would have liked me to come and live with her then and basically be her servant. No way!!!!

As Barb says - your needs are way more important than her wants. Your health issues deserve to be your priority. for the foreseeable future.

Ignore her mad! Let her be angry. Look after yourself!!!! Breath deep and relax. You did the right thing, Considering your health issues, anyone who makes any demands on you is selfish and or cognitively impaired.
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sp19690 Jan 2023
A hip replacement at 99 seems ridiculous.
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Your mother wants you to be the answer to all her problems. She doesn't want to put in the work to solve them on her own. My father was the same way. I would tell him what he needed to do and he would do nothing waiting for me to do it for him. I had a full time job, kids still at home, husband, a lot of pets and a home. I had enough to do. Made it very easy to just say no.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Ikdrymom

Even if you had nothing to do no one gets to decide what you do with your time.
I always believed this. I never made excuses to anyone for why I wouldn't provide child or elder care for them. I'm an adult. I don't owe anyone an explanation for why or why I do not do something.
This has been known to rub some people the wrong way and to be honest, I don't care.
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Your mother's response to your going home and not coming back for dads surgery tells you exactly what your mom expects of you.

"Whose going to wipe me?" As if even your 95 year old dad should be taking that on either. He's not exactly a spring chicken.

I think if you stick to this forum you will be able to stand your ground with mom and not cave into her growing demands and neediness.

You live in Florida perhaps it's time for parents to sell house and move into a facility closer to you.

Florida is old people heaven with lots of resources.

Might be something to consider.

And note I did not say they should live with you.
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lealonnie1 Jan 2023
I'd rather swallow a bottle of pills with a whiskey chaser than ask my children, "Who's going to wipe me?"
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sp,

Benjamin Button is a fantastic movie that happened to be filmed in my city! New Orleans did fairly well in the filming industry. The actors loved filming here. Unfortunately, a former governor, which I will refrain from mentioning, really screwed things up for us.

Then Atlanta started getting our business and many people here lost their jobs due to a loss in filming.

We rely on tourism and filming here was a plus! They spent lots of money while they were here, hotels, dining at our great restaurants or going to hear our local music, etc.

My nephew works in the film industry and is also a musician. Anyway, that was one of his favorite films to work on.

I think it would be so interesting to go from old to young, like in Benjamin Button.
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sp19690 Jan 2023
Cool did you get to see any of the making of the movie in person? When I lived in Florida they filmed one of the Lethal Weapon movies on Clearwater Beach. We went to try and see Mel Gibson and Danny Glover but unfortunately we didnt get to see them in person.

They filmed a movie with Ashley Judd in New Orleans called Double Jeporady. Loved that movie too.

I agree we should all age backwards.
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@Hothouseflower and lealonnie

My father was Italian and Greek. None of the old people from his side of the family including himself ever complained or made their family's lives miserable. His mother lived with one of her daughters for a little while when she was quite old then went into care. Never complained, never made anyone's life a misery when they visited. The staff loved her because she never fussed about anything. She watched the daily Catholic mass every morning on tv and prayed her Rosary three times a day. My aunts on my father's side got old and had to be in care as well. They never gave anyone any trouble at all.
My mother is a miserable, negative, snide, instigating, gaslighting, guilt-tripping drama queen. She's been dying my entire life since I was a little kid.
She is not Italian. Not at all.
I would never expect my son to wipe my a$$ or his father's. He will not be bathing us either. He would, but I would never allow it. Neither would his father. We're not the kind of people who derive pleasure from making others miserable. There are some kinds of people who actually enjoy someone having to clean up their sh*t. My mother is one of these people. It's a power trip for some people. I've had care clients like this. Most of them I dropped from my service.
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maximus1 Jan 2023
You made me laugh! I need to read this to my husband! You tell it like it is! I’m real too - I’ve told my mom off many times, but I got blasted back, so I gave up. I was emotionally and verbally abused by my brother, so I can’t stand to be upset anymore. Everyone knows my mom is a task master, and puts guilt on us. We just went with it, but no more even at 92. Thank you!
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To all of my new friends! My mom started to tear up saying we need you here - you are leaving in 2 weeks? Can’t you stay? That’s not enough time - dad needs you too. I held her arm, looking at her in the eyes and said mom I need to go home - I have to see my oncologist. She then said ok then a few weeks, to which I replied ok a few more weeks, but then I go. She asked me who’s going to help me wipe myself? I said mom, the occupational therapist will teach you. I understand where you’re coming from - I had sciatica and I forced myself with pain to do it. You can do this - you will heal with the oxygen problem, and even if you don’t, this is the only thing that you need to fix. You can learn, people with back braces learn. Then when the therapist came she told her my daughter has to go home and I can’t have her do this anymore. I’m so embarrassed. Today she got up to urinate and didn’t ask for a bed pan. My husband said she’s is scared to be alone and she may have a little dementia. My husband and I love her so much, even though she’s a task master, and we’re scared too for her - but we also need our life back. Emotionally, we understand she needs us, physically we can’t help. We will never abandon her emotionally. Thank you so much for the wonderful advice! Can I keep in touch with all of you? I hope this is reaching all of you - I don’t t know how to post a general post.
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Isthisrealyreal Jan 2023
Well done! Progress has begun! Yipee!
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Hi Golden23 and everyone else, I really appreciate your advice! It killed me to see my mom’s desperate look on her face telling me she can’t reach back to wipe herself - it hurt so bad I could cry! She always was a strong willed person, working hard in her home and businesses. She was a workhorse. She is and was obsessive about things. So to see her so desperate killed me, but for her sake she needs to get back to trying to be independent like she was a few weeks ago. I think being in the hospital and having nurses around helping her made her less independent, but I cannot live with her or her with me where she’s going to dictate to me what I can and cannot do. If my Dad passes away first, I don’t think she realizes that she has to go into assistant living because she can’t get up on her own easily. Her legs atrophied because she always sits and does minimal walking. No one can lift her up. I can’t picture her learning this.
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Ah, the "In our culture" card. A classic of the entitled elder. It's been keeping women down since we lived in caves and ate wooly mammoth. Glad you're putting your foot down. Don't give an inch.
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Sorry you are in this situation. That sounds pretty awful for you to be treated that way. Can your mother maybe sit on a bidet, which will wash her bottom? There are some great inventions now for that sort of thing - but it depends on exactly what she can do physically. I saw a few types of gadgets that attach to the side of the toilet and you just press a button and it washes the bottom area without having to even move off the toilet seat. They come at varying price points and some of the fancier ones require a plumber to put them in. But might be worth it! I'm sure you have already looked into these sorts of devices, but maybe worthwhile contact a special medical assistance store who specialize in these things and see if there any other tools/devices that might be able to help her? I wish you all the best and sorry to hear about your cancer. I hope things get better for you soon.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Orangesky

The OP's mother won't use the toilet but rather insists on a bed pan being brought into the kitchen for her to piss and crap in. She isn't going to use a bidet.
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Maximus, you mentioned an OT. Has mom's doctor or the discharge team from the hospital ordered Home Health Care services?

Make sure you tell the OT (and anyone else from the team) that you will be leaving and that your parents will require outside help if they want to remain at home.

It sounds like your mom has something pretty serious going on, with oxygen and fluid retention. Does she have congestive heart failure?
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maximus1 Jan 2023
Yes, Barb they know I’m leaving. She was on the cusp of congestive heart failure. She’s going to the Pulmonologist on the 11th. If anything gets more serious, I would return, but not if she is stable.
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I read some of your earlier posts. Why did your parents support your brother all his life? Is he now dead? And he abused you? Did your parents know about that?
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maximus1 Jan 2023
Hi CTTN55 Long story. I’ll write to everyone when I have time later.
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Good morning, Max. couple of things. You mentioned being crazy or a nice person. I guess it is important to you to be a nice person as it is to most of us. To be a truly nice person you have to be nice to you as well as others or you are just being a martyr. Being nice to you means taking care of your health, Please make seeing your oncologist a priority. My daughter was diagnosed with breast cancer about a year ago. This last year has seen family's resources, including mine, going in her direction to get her through this. Our expectations of her have dropped and our care for her has increased. You stay to wipe her bum??? Your mother's mind can't be working right. And you don't let the one who's brain is not working right, run the show. That's crazy!

Second - I am wondering what your exit strategy is. You are staying a "few" more weeks. Do you have a date of departure? I may have missed that in an earlier post. You know your mother is going to throw fits to try to keep you there. The bum wiping is just part of it. She wants to keep you there regardless of the fact that she can be cared for by others. But that is destroying your life so you are choosing to leave and live your own life. That's great. Not being there for your dad's birthday and surgery - oh, well. There is no rule saying adult children have to be there for everything for their parents. I wasn't there for either father's or mother's funeral. The family dynamics were tilted against me so I didn't go. My sister is as sick as mother was but in a more cold and calculating way. I know about abusive siblings. I have gone no contact with her. You do what you have to to survive!

So glad you are a survivor. Keep up the good work!!!
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maximus1 Jan 2023
Thank you Golden, I wrote to you last night. This morning she said she wiped herself, but she looked unhappy about it because I guess she had to struggle with it. I really praised her, but she didn’t appreciate it. She said she’s still very sick and not feeling better even though her oxygen levels went up very high. I think she’s going to start complaining again. If you read my posts from last night - you don’t change the spots on a leopard! We’re going to get hell when we leave! Please give hugs to your daughter from me.
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Update: My mom actually told me she took care of her bottom this morning! Excellent! Read my post I think to Golden. Don’t worry, I’ll probably get blasted in a few weeks when I leave. Her controlling ways didn’t change. She actually is nice afterwards, of course, because she gets her way. These type of people with these traits think they’re perfectly normal. Not to be believed!
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
That's good news, maximus. Sometimes people have to be forced to do for themselves and they will.
Don't worry about when you finally go home. Just ignore the storm and go. It will be fine.
My mother is the same way. Yesterday she was able to crush me with her bullying and reduce me to tears which is no easy thing to do. That hasn't happened in a very long time.
Today she acts as if everything is right as rain. It's not and I don't pretend it is. You shouldn't either.
Make your travel arrangements and go, go, go. Go back to your life. Good luck.
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You said you were leaving in 2 weeks then said ok a few more weeks. Which is it? Changing 2 weeks to a few more is not setting a boundary. When is your actual leave date set for?

I had the same reaction when I told my father I would be away on vacation. He asked who was going to take care of him? I told him he was responsible for himself. At this point he still lived on his own and I took him shopping or to a specialist. But he expected me to find a person for him when I was away. I thought that took a lot of nerve.

You tell your mother off then she yells back and you back down. That seems like your routine. Next time don't back down and yell back at her if necessary. She is still under the impression that she commands and you obey. Because you normally do. I'm glad she is finally starting to try and take care of business. Don't be surprised if she has an 'accident' right before you are ready to leave in an attempt to get you to stay.
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Cover999 Jan 2023
Lol this has been one funny thread.
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Hi Everyone! My mom just yelled at me. I said Dad will get the frying pan out because he knows the one he likes and she yelled at me saying sit down you’re tired and I said I am tired - I just got over a respiratory infection, I’m chasing around 2 puppies and I’m sleeping on a pullout couch! I wouldn’t dare say I’m at your beck and call. So she said It’s not from what you do here (like I don’t do anything (what the f)? She said I didn’t know you’re uncomfortable on the pullout - I said we told you that our lower backs hurt by the time we leave here! To which she replied then don’t come here.. Then I stirred her breadcrumbs and she started stirring them again and I said I just did that and she said don’t tell me what to do, I’ll sit here and stir them all I want! Are you kidding me? I’m going out when my Dad gets back and taking my puppy for a f***ing walk! Let her talk behind my back -I don’t give a you know what!
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lealonnie1 Jan 2023
What's the definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing over & over again expecting a different result.

Go home Maximus. What you're posting now is the same $hi#, different day. Mom's going to pull out all the stops to keep you there, the question is, what are YOU going to do to stick to YOUR guns & leave now? She told you, "Then don't come here." Your response needs to be, "You're 100% correct mom, we were wrong to come & now we're leaving. Goodbye."
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Its time to call your husband and tell him to pick you up. I can't remember how far away you are, get a motel for the night do not stay at your parents. Then home the next day.

Your Mom gave you your walking papers when she said if you don't like the bed leave and don't come back. Your Dad will do OK with his pacemaker surgery. You may want to call his doctor and say you need to return home so they may want to set up some in home care to follow up on him.

You can always request a well check from the police or APS

P.S. those beds are uncomfortable because of the fold out bar. My daughter used to sleep on an angle and said it was not as bad.
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I can’t leave because of my husband’s work schedule, he said
when he comes he said he can’t stay we’re leaving probably the next day! Oh no I’m in big trouble! Ok. I do need therapy - just by saying what I just said! I’m goi g to stop ranting because I’m probably driving you people crazy!
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Can you not book a flight, a train or a car, kiddo?

Or perhaps just check into a hotel or AirBnB?

Your parents need to grow up.
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maximus1 Jan 2023
Barb, I’ve got a 1 year old puppy that is crazy. I can’t take any mode of transportation besides our car until he goes for professional training, which we had to cancel because of my mom. What’s really sad is that we were just laughing together. I think she is having cognitive issues. I tell them I’ll clean up after dinner go and relax, and my mom said hurry up, we want you to sit with us - so , so sweet- but the minute you disagree with her, she’s crazy! She’s so guilty and paranoid that I’m here helping her!
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