Does anyone know why the "whipping post/scapegoat" child so often becomes the narcissist's caregiver? Even when they do not get on as well?

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Does anyone know why the "whipping post/scapegoat" child so often becomes the narcissist's caregiver? Even when they do not get on as well?

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She created and exploited your need to be loved, but you broke away through physical distancing and became your own person. Now she has moved back she wants to recreate the codependency because she knows she needs you and fully expected for you to fall back in line in your old role of trying to please her and be loved by her. She knows you are the one she could manipulate with emotional carrots. It is natural that when she met with resistance from you and saw your husbands need to please that she would create the similar relationship she had with you and your brother whom she uses more easily than you, but she knows that you are the key to her future. And she doesn't care that it causes pain or difficulty in your marriage. What does your husband say about being used/ played this way. Did he have a similar relationship with one of his parents?
What is his emotional weakness that she saw and now manipulates? What is yours?
Does he complain?
Does he justify her behavior? Does he feel duty bound?

I was always the whipping post but I was dutiful and loyal, I tried very hard to do the right thing it regardless of my feeling. It never paid off with more love and respect from her but it ultimately made me stronger and able to set boundaries and reject use and abuse by others. Nevertheless, in the end I loved my mother she gave me life, so in the end it was me that sat next to her 8 hours a day every days in the nursing home and held her in my arms when she passed. And I had peace in my heart after grieving because she was never able to really love me but I know what I gave to her let her know she was loved, but you describe my relationship with my mother and siblings. She loves you in her own strange narcissistic way. Hold on to that and the fact that you are a person if value worthy if your husbands time, attention, and affectionate love, support, and loyalty.

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'What does your husband say about being used/ played this way.
What is his emotional weakness that she saw and now manipulates? What is yours?
Does he complain?
Does he justify her behavior? Does he feel duty-bound?'

I have asked him these things but got no helpful reply. All he said was that he can't bear conflict - even though avoiding it with her led to our having a fight one day when I felt ill and unable to cope with what I saw as his putting her first. He is overconscientious and dutiful and likes to feel useful, at work, church or anywhere - he lacks confidence in himself so maybe obtains it from feeling that others need him. He does complain a bit, but not enough to stop him running when she calls. He doesn't have the 50+ years of baggage that I have and he feels sorry for my mother - well so do I, but not to the extent that I can sacrifice my well-being for her. I can't see this changing while she is alive.

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Pasa 18, I am working on doing what you suggest but still somewhat resent being forced into the caring role without being consulted. I don't yet know what level of care is beyond my capacity, though; physically I could do more, but emotionally it would probably wreck my life.

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Helen, have you thought further about having your mom's needs assessed?

It certainly sounds as though she would benefit from a facility that would provide transportation to doctors and the like. Perhaps more organized socialization would make it easier for her to meet people.

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I know all about being the "whipping post/scapegoat child who has to become caregiver to the narcissistic parent because I am that person. As a friend, let me give you the ONLY strategy that will work and make the situation tolerable. The caregiving MUST be on your terms. Not your mother's. Your husband has to stop meekly taking orders from her and your brother along with the rest of the family involved need to stand up in solidarity for you. This is the only way a narcissistic and selfish person in need learns how to be reasonable. They will not be reasonable for one moment if they are humored and allowed to dominate a situation their way. I totally understand the feelings or anger and resentment for being the "whipping post / scapegoat" child. I am one myself. Talk to somebody like a therapist, a friend, or even to some of the excellent people in this group because so many here know what you're going through.

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Helen b, don’t let your mother drive a wedge between you and your husband. Narcissistic people don’t care about the damage they inflict on other people’s relationships, in fact in some cases they positively relish it. From your various posts on this subject, it sounds like you’ve been really working hard on setting boundaries about what YOU are prepared do do for your demanding and controlling mother, but that your husband is having less success with this. It sounds like you are understandably getting stressed with him for doing her bidding and this is making you feel even worse. Can I suggest that you let him deal with your mother however he wants, just for the next week or so, whilst you observe the effect this has on his well being? Where there are problems, you might see some possible solutions. If he wants to get up at midnight and rush over to her house, let him! He won’t want to do that too often, believe me! Then, when you have had a chance to look at the situation from a more detached position, you might be able to highlight to him what you have found, and he might be more amenable to making some changes. This could also involve trying to get social services involved to take the burden of some of your mother’s demands, as you both really are not responsible for her well being. If she rejects this, tell her she is on her own and you and your husband can do no more to help her until she accepts help from other people as well. Please, don’t let her narcissistic behaviour wreck your marriage.

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You are very perceptive and wise and I am now trying to do what you suggest, with the support of my counsellor. In the past I think I felt guilty that it was him not me who helped her most, as I am her child (though she clearly prefers to rely on him), and thus resentful of him for making me feel even worse about myself. But now I think that it is not surprising that I don't feel close to a mother who basically failed to nurture me in any way apart from feeding and clothing me.

My brother, husband and I all think that we may need to buy in more care soon as Mum has gone downhill mentally in lockdown and refuses to do even the things she is still capable of, though we are all cowards and dread the fuss she will make about paying!

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Lay down some boundaries with your husband about how often he goes over there to the assisted living to help her. If she can afford assisted living can she afford to hire a helper instead of depending on your husband. It also sounds like you and your husband need therapy as a couple.

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Helen, in response to your most recent post, it’s great to hear you have a counsellor to help you with this - they are another vital part of your support network. You mention that your mother prefers to rely on your husband than on you - but maybe she just wants to come between you and can successfully do this by demanding so much of his time and attention, especially if you’ve been firm in dealing with her and she sees she can no longer directly control you. You’ve mentioned guilt and fear on your post. A few days ago I read some advice on another topic which really stuck with me: ditch the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt). You are all fearful of raising the subject of her getting more care, but at least the three of you are in agreement so can tackle this together as a united front. You feel guilty about your husband doing most of the work for her, and about you not feeling close to her. Maybe you also feel some sort of obligation too? Once you can recognise and identify your feelings in these areas, you, your husband and counsellor should be able to work towards you feeling less overwhelmed by these thoughts. And when you successfully arrange additional bought-in care for your mother, you can start to get your own life back.

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Hi, I'm the eldest daughter of a narcissistic mother. Yes, as she ages, she's now 95, she's unable to manipulate me as much, but I can still see her "tactics". And, for myself and my sister, it has nothing to do with academics, or practicality. It's a dysfunctional relationship, all the way around. Your husband may not meekly do things for her, but may have been trained early on, like myself. My son's are always telling me I do too much for her, and that's in large part, I'm finally learning, due to her ability to manipulate me into thinking she can't do things for herself. And if mum is anything like mine, she has a way of "asking" that promises her the ability to NEVER say please. She insinuates, she hints. I've been so good at it I call it "The Trained Seal Syndrome". I was 55 before I even knew about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My personal reference is "DONM", daughters of narcissistic mothers, it's online and absolutely fantastic for help, healing and guidance.

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Donna, I recognise myself in your experiences with your mother. “Trained seal” is absolutely spot on! I spent decades doing so much for my mother without ever questioning why she couldn’t do any of these things for herself, until I became ill with exhaustion. I too was in my 50s before I became aware of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and was shocked to find it described my mother perfectly. I’ve spent the last few years understanding this and how to deal with it, but have noticed that you can still get caught out by new tactics used to manipulate you, even though you are forever on guard for whatever demand will come next. Only yesterday I found myself about to drop everything I was doing when my mother announced that the water jug was empty on the kitchen table while she was eating lunch. I’d just spent a couple of hours cleaning the house while she’d done nothing, and I was really tired. Then I realised I would be enabling this behaviour by filling up the jug when she was perfectly capable of doing it herself. It’s a small thing and might sound petty, but when you are faced with many of these seemingly small demands every day it is so easy to become exhausted and to have no time to look after your own needs. It’s interesting that I’m the one with joint problems whilst my mother is fine, having let me take the strain of doing everything for most of my life. I too have seen the website “Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers” and agree it is very helpful, giving you an insight into the condition and how to deal with it.

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Helen, I ended up reading quite a lot of your very long thread. It became clear that you are doing well in understanding the pickle you are in and in setting boundaries with your mother. It also became clear that an important part of your problem is getting your husband to set boundaries too.

Can you talk through with him what you have learned about boundary setting, and ask him to think about his own boundaries? If you don’t want to say ‘do it for me’, you can say ‘do it for her’. It really is in her best interest to continue doing everything she can, so that she does not lose her abilities. It is in her best interest to create her own interests and friendships, not to rely on you or your husband to be her recreation and socialisation. It is in her best interest to have a life that does not depend on you both. What if either of you get sick? She loses her support at a time when you have no time to find new supports for her.

Everyone has boundaries in their relationships. For some people it comes naturally, with no dissonance between the parties. For other people it has to be thought through. You’ve got to the stage where it is your husband who needs to think through his boundaries with your mother. Part of that is obviously the emphasis he needs to put into the marriage, and indeed into his other activities. If you can treat it as an academic exercise, not a complaint, it might work better for both of you.

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Sorry it's so long - must have touched a nerve with quite a few people, to whom I am very grateful for their insights and support!

You're quite right about my husband. I have suggested he read the often-recommended book 'Boundaries' , with regard to his doing too much at church as well as for my mum, but don't know if he will. He can be stubborn even though he accepts he has a problem in this area.

You're absolutely right about my mum's best interests too, but sadly she simply refuses to create any interests and friendships (never did have many), and this has only got worse in lockdown as she now lacks the mental energy even to read, which used to give her some pleasure. There really are no answers to this.

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IMHO your mother is continuing to whip you. If you don't want the roll, explain the pattern to your husband, make a decision as to exactly how you will be treated and have a meeting with your brother announcing that you are moving Mom out of her role, then do it. Mom ceases to be the punisher, you remove yourself from the whipping post, your bro steps up, or Mom ships out. Have your plan B in place first,

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Thanks for this but I don't quite understand what you mean by 'moving Mom out of her role'; her personality problems aren't going to change and her genuine needs will only get more as she ages. I'm doing my best to try to work out how far it is my problem and how best to deal with it all - don't see what more I can do!

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I realised yesterday (with a little guilt) that our lockdown has give me a proper break. My relatives got their aides & deliveries in place. I stay in my home/work bubble & have returned to being more like *just a relative*. They have found solutions for their physical & emotional needs to be met. I can now be an add-on - a friendly phone call - a friendly visitor again when lockdown ends.

My stepping back before was sucessfull but now I see it was more physical, there was still this huge emotional pressure. It did work though. Even though I started saying no, my DH still was willing to help. I got better at saying no, better at letting DH decide for himself his participation without any comment. Quite quickly he wound back his duties too. I mean, why was he leaving work, rushing here & there when I wouldn't? I think he started to feel a tiny bit of resentment & then stepped back too.

The best bit is it has allowed my relatives to get more in charge of their own lives, get advice from other impartial sources. It's a win/win.

Helen, I hope the path becomes clearer for you too.

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My experience as my mother’s scapegoat has exacted pain, misery and tragedy. Not only does she create flying monkeys of all the other family members, my husband fell for it too. He was a plumber and did countless jobs for my mother at her home. He would pick her up on Fridays and bring her to our house for the weekend. Her reliance on him and comments she made e.g., “Steve treats me more like a wife than a MIL” were clearly unhealthy. Anything I said about it he reacted negatively. Eventually the whole scapegoating family won him over (mobbing) to where it destroyed our marriage. Our fights were always about my family and he took their side. I could take no more - I left him. And then he killed himself. Scapegoating is EVIL.

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I am so sorry to hear this, and thank you for the warning. Just before lockdown, when I was feeling physically unwell and at the end of my tether with my mother's demands, I actually pounded on my husband's chest with sheer rage and frustration at his putting her needs before mine once too often. I am not proud of this and it scared me. My mum hasn't actually said he treats her more like a wife than a MIL, but she did say she wouldn't have moved to live near us if he hadn't taken early retirement, which I guess shows that she planned to lean on him all along.

Now, despite rising COVID cases and deaths, my mum's AL has allowed visitors back in. After seven months of caring at a distance, which suited us fine, I am now worried about slipping back into the old ways. I plan to follow Beatty's example and try not to react whatever my DH does for Mum, and let him decide when it is too much for him. People have said I should stop feeling guilty (because I'm the blood relative and feel it ought to be me) and be grateful for being let off!

I have had throat and cold viruses for six weeks now, so am not up to visiting yet, and no doubt wouldn't be welcome if I coughed everywhere! But I do wonder whether stress has something to do with my illness.

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Does anyone know why the "whipping post/scapegoat" child so often becomes the narcissist's caregiver? Even when they do not get on as well?

72 Answers

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