$20,000 stolen from MIL

Oh No, it's almost 6 now. Hope this day, goes smoothly. In the mean time try to enjoy your family today, and don't strangle MIL's partner.....At least not where anyone can see. SMILE HERE.

Cyber Huggz

What does your HUSBAND REALLY want to do? You say that "His sister is probably going to want to forgive and forget...We can handle the missing money, it’s not like it came out of our pockets and nobody wanted or expected money when MIL died." Is $20,000 really worth a HUGE RIFT between family members?

I think that you and your husband are grieving the loss of his Mother (your MIL) and that you are taking out your "grief anger" on your MILs partner. You have no way of knowing whether your MIL gave the money to her partner or whether the partner just took the money without your MIL's knowledge.

Use today as a time to reminisce your MIL and all of the wonderful (and not so wonderful) times of her life. God Bless!

I’m sorry but I don’t agree with the comment that we are taking out our grief on my MILs partner. I admit I angry over somethings but I am not channeling it towards this. I’ve documented some of the issues with him here including the most recent conversation with him. If my MIL had given him the money, it would have been before she died. The money was withdrawn after she died. Just weeks before she died, he had a manic episode after he asked if she wanted him to sign a check for her and she got angry and said she didn’t want him touching her money. They fought all day over that and he said she was angry over the way he treats her and that she doesn’t want to leave him anything when she dies, that she didn’t want him to have anything. She would have told my husband if she had given away a large sum of money. The guy is shady as heck and in trouble with the IRS. My MIL did not come back from the grave and give him the money. If she had really given him the money, he would have made a beeline for the bank at that very moment, he wouldn’t have waited until she died. There is a big long backstory here and a history of lies and shady behavior. He’s in panic mode because his gravy train ended when my MIL died. There are conversations I wish I had recorded because people would see what I mean. Why would someone with no financial interest in the house want to increase the amount of insurance on it? If he wasn’t up to anything or trying to hide something or I don’t know....trying to collect on the missing life insurance policies, why would he get nervous when he found out my husband put in a change of address for her mail?

Anyway it’s only 3:30 here so no one is here yet! I myself don’t think this is worth a family rift and severed relationships. It just concerns me that my husband is accountable for everything here.

ShakingDustOff, that’s exactly what I was thinking. It’s not my battle to fight, I won’t involve myself in the discussion other to divulge information that was given to me but I planned on suggesting to my husband that ask him nicely to return the money and that once the estate is settled and all final expenses are paid, if he has receipts for anything he purchased and wants to be reimbursed for and if he feels money was otherwise owed, that he can provide receipts and state his argument and they will talk about it and come to an agreement. I KNOW my MIL. She planned everything so her kids would be provided for in the end, not for the rest of their lives but she planned ahead and took a smaller retirements so her kids could be provided for. She would have married this man if she was really that worried about him financially.

Well, he stole the 20k after she died. Your husband should talk to him alone and tell him to return it. If he refuses, then DH should tell him he has proof of the theft and he will be taking that info to the police to bring up charges. I would talk to the bank and find out how he was able to withdraw this amount of money? It may be on their heads and they will have to reimburse the account.

He had access to my MILs account because he had her book that had all her passwords written down as well as all her bank and credit cards. I know he had her cards because told me he cut them up. Anyway thank you all. They have just discussed things, my husband explained what he knows and what their options are. If he doesn’t voluntarily give the money back, it will cost a lot of money to retain a lawyer so they have to decide if they will go that route OR if they will just lay down the law and ask for receipts to prove he’s paying the homeowners insurance and property taxes which the trust states he is responsible for and that if he doesn’t maintain the house and slips up some how they will evict him. I have a strong feeling that they will go that route rather than get a lawyer. We know what was taken after she died but not before. If a substantial amount was taken while she was bedridden, things may change. My husband spoke to a lawyer and he said When the kids go down to get the money in the personal account they can ask for the records as they are now the accounts owners and that if the bank won’t release then them, they tell the bank they are filing suit. My SIL is goig to ask him for the bank log-in information. My husband is going to tell him he is not allowed to sell off anymore of MILs stuff. I believe I mentioned in an earlier thread that he had given a lot of her stuff away and was trying sell off a hutch and scooter, but legally they belong to the trust. My husband has also spoke with an district attorney And gotten their opinion on some things.

Anyway MILs partner is now here at my house and he seems to be avoiding some of us. This is so very awkward. I really want to laugh about it. I can’t believe this is real life.

worriedinCali, by any chance did Mom-in-law's partner use the $20k and sold off some furniture to pay off any medical expenses? Just thinking out loud.

Sorry, I didn't realize that the money was withdrawn AFTER your Mom died.

Thank you for the update on yesterday's meeting. Please keep us updated on what is going on and continue to "VENT" anytime you want. God Blessings.

Hi all, I’m sorry I thought this post had been deleted because I couldn’t find it yesterday! Thought I broke a rule or something. I would have updated sooner. So I have a major update!

Frequent flyer, my MIL had no medical bills. She had Medicare and private insurance-she kept her blue cross policy when she retired. Her only out of pocket expenses were some prescriptions but they cost only a few dollars. He didn’t sell off any furniture or take the money to pay off her bills.

Yesterday when my MILs partner came over, he was asked for her bank log in information in front of all 3 kids. He gave a user ID and password that did not work. As of last night, we knew there had been a withdrawl after she died because the lady at the bank did disclose that much to my husband on Friday but she did would not disclose an amount and she would not give him any records. And she told
Him she could see why he was concerned that something was going on with MILs partner and her accounts. This lady knew them both since it’s a small credit union and they banked there for years. She even told us, when we went to consolidate the accounts, that he had been in already to “take care of things” whatever she meant by that.

Today we got solid proof of the theft and when it occurred. My husband went to pick up some paperwork MILs partner filled out in order to claim a small death benefit through her pension and he asked for the correct bank log in, he told him the accountant needed it for his moms taxes. While my husband was there, This guy also had the nerve to try to get him and MILs estate to help pay to have the house tented and treated for termites! The trust says he’s responsible for all expenses while he lives there and he has the nerve to ask for money knowing he stole $20k from the trust?
Anyway....this time he provided the right information and we were able to log into her bank account.
My MIL died on June 1, 2018 at 6am. On June 1 at 8:07am $20,000 was transferred, through the bank website, from her personal savings account to their joint account. My MIL did not transfer this money, she was dead. And she was comatose on 5/31. Also, sometime on June 1st, $20,000 cash was withdrawn from the joint account.

My husband broke the news to his siblings tonight. My BIL is very hurt. This guy couldn’t even wait before my MIL was cold to steal her money. What kind of person loses the so called love
Of their life and the first thing they do is steal her money? Who does that? My husband is angry. Angry that someone who has lied and manipulated for years is still trying to manipulate us. That he stole from his mother when he should have been crying his eyes out and mourning her death. My SIL is sad because this man is the closest thing to a father that she has. Her biological dad (my FIL) was not around much. My MILs partner treated her like his own kid and has done a lot for her. So she is understandably upset and doesn’t want this to ruin relationships. My BIL and his wife are also understandably upset because their son was very close to my MIL and her partner and he just spent the weekend with her partner and now they don’t want him having anything to do with him. He lost his grandma and now he’s losing his grandpa. And that is really sad. My heart breaks for him. I am just disgusted that it has come to this. That we are all in this situation. It hurts to think that he didn’t think about anyone else and how this would affect his relationship with my SIL and nephew. All he had to do was be a man about it. If he had approached my husband or all 3 kids together and said hey look I need money or I think I should be compensated for this and that, they would have helped him out. But he didn’t do that. He stole the money while she lay dead in the living room of the home they shared for 20 years!

My husband is going to confront him tomorrow night and tell him to return the money, and that if he doesn’t, he will go to the police and have him arrested. There is enough to get him for elder abuse and grand theft and other charges. He also will tell him he’s going to turn him in for IHSS fraud. And that he’s going to have him evicted from the house. (Have to ask the lawyer if that’s even possible though). Obviously nobody wants it to come to this. I hope he does the right thing and we move on from this.

We glanced over the bank statement for April and May and he looks to be bringing in $1800 a month between his social security, the fraudulent IHSS and a small pension. I noticed that every time he got a paid (direct deposit) it was followed by a cash withdrawal in almost the same amount. He got a $576 IHSS payment in May and the same day $600 was withdrawn. When SS hit, there was a $1200 withdrawal. He got paid $1001 social security though but he would take out $1200. I am going to assume he was stashing that money in preparation for my MILs death. He was taking out a couple hundred more a month than he was bringing in and he was using that account to buy groceries and prescriptions and pay some bills.there were no frivolous expenses or anything on the may statement but there were cash withdrawals every time he got paid. And a few small ones in between so he got all his money, the trust didn’t get any of it (and they don’t want it). He didn’t appear to contribute anything to the household in May and April since he withdrew all his money as soon as he got it. My MILs money paid for everything. So she didn’t owe him. She supported him for several years when he had no income and was too good to take a minimum wage job.

Thank you all for the advice and support! I will continue to update and to vent! I am having trouble coming to terms with everything right now. The fall-out scares me. I hope whatever my husband ultimately has to do, it won’t affect his relationship with his sister. And I am scared to even type this but I am scared this guy will seek revenge somehow. I thought no way would he have stolen money after my MIL died, no way he is telling us bold faced lies because my husband is a cop. This guy should know better, he knows my husband isn’t stupid and knows what’s going on and can easily have him arrested. But here we are and he took $20k just 2 hours after my MIL died and he straight up lied about her bank password in front of all 3 of her kids and he still insisted there is life insurance out there. He lied to my husband about all her money going to medical bills and then he lied and said there were no medical bills when asked for receipts. So I guess he must think he is either really smart and we are really dumb or he’s just really dumb because I can’t believe he’s done all of this and thinks that my MILs cop son is going to let him get away with all of this? And that he wouldn’t find out?

Who knows. Maybe Wednesday morning we will get a call that her house burned down. Since he has said things that lead us to believe he might burn it down for the insurance money.

Thank you for the update. I am so sorry that the situation has come to this. I am relieved and pleased that your family confronted the partner about the money. It was not an easy thing to do.

WOW. The partner withdrew the cash BEFORE the mortuary picked up your MILs body? How Terrible for all of you! I can't imagine how you are feeling right now. {{HUGS}} to ALL.

And now the partner "wants the house tented and treated for termites"...WELL--HE IS the BIGGEST TERMITE in the house C:)

"Maybe Wednesday morning we will get a call that her house burned down. Since he has said things that lead us to believe he might burn it down for the insurance money." Oh, Good Lord, this guy is a "piece of work"!

As much as you and your family hope that whatever happens will not affect any relationships within the family or ?with the partner?--Everything that has happened has already changed and affected all of your family's relationships. I am SO, SO sorry that this has happened to you.

I started crying after reading your post. It is so sad what some people will do for money. I have a poem from Roy Lessin that I am going to put in another posting. {I changed my mind and typed in a different poem.}

Here is the "new" poem that I want to share with you and your family:

This time in your life isn't easy,
but you're walking through it
with such a clear reflection
of GOD'S GRACE.
Still there must be days
that are harder than others,
when you feel like this is
more than you can handle.
In those moments your heart
is in a PERFECT PLACE--
a place where
GOD's strength will be there
to give you EVERYTHING YOU NEED.

"My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness."

II Corinthians 12:9 KJV

^^Prayers^^ & {{{Hugs}}}

Hi Worried,
Huh, I never put together you're in CA. Im in PA, So there's a time difference....duh Pepsee😞

Please keep venting and updating. In some unknown way, my hearing you handle this with such grace and poise, helps me. I know that sounds wierd, but it does. 

Vent and get it out here, so you can continue to keep your cool and be supportive to your family. What a great job you're doing. 

I would find it tough to know when to talk and when to keep my feelings and opinions to myself. You're a great example of how a dignified lady acts under pressure.

I had such an argument with a receptionist at the radiologist's office the other day. I just couldn't keep my cool. She was absolutely wrong in her assumption, and did talk to me like I was a 3 yr. old. However, I still could have handled it much better.

But I did learn from it. It's matters of the heart, that trip me up. And this surely was one.

Now, dealing with Mom's care (big matter of the heart) I absolutely must keep it together. Like NOT giving the paramedics lip because I feel they took to long getting to my house. Oy😩

Thanks for listening (reading) and being an inspiration! Hope mil's  partner decides on the easy way, instead of forcing DH hand.

Worried, you're worried your late mother's partner will seek revenge on you?

Revenge for *his* having stolen money from your late MIL?

I don't think revenge works that way round. He is the one who has committed the offence.

I think the first thing I'd be asking for is an explanation. Then, failing an explanation - can't imagine what, but then that's why you're asking - repayment. Then, failing a satisfactory agreement there, police. On the face of it, it's straight theft from MIL, hence the executor of her estate has no option but to pursue it. He *can't* agree to forgive and forget, and SIL needs to grasp that point. It isn't a choice.

Countrymouse, I am worried he will seek revenge because he was forced to return the money or go to jail. Now I admit, I’ve read one too many the crime books and a watched a lot of crime shows on TV over the years so my imagination is running wild but I just know how he is when it comes to money. Unless he has been stashing his monthly income & has a little nest egg somewhere, he will be flat broke with a limited monthly income if and when he returns the $20k. He grew up dirt poor with nothing and he is extremely tight when it comes to his money. He’s the kind of person who claimed like 8 witholdings on his w-4 so that no taxes were taken out because he didn’t want the government to get his money. Of course this caused him to owe quite a bit of money every year when he filed his taxes. He pays everything off as soon as he can so he doesn’t have to pay interest and he constantly brahs about his low interest rates and how “he” only paid $20 something in interest on MILs new car.

We know he’s going to claim that MIL told him to take the money because when he sold his truck in 2017, allegedly for $20,000, he says he turned around and paid the entire amount towards MILs car-a car which we know own, she gave it to us 3 months ago. Back at the end of April, I had a conversation with him where he told me about his truck and putting the $20k into MILs car. Then last week when we picked up the deed to the house, he told my husband how MIL always wanted him (her partner) to have half of everything and he always told her no, give it to your kids and that she told him to take the money he had put into her car because she was worried about his tax bill—this is why my husband believed he took up $20,000. Because of the conversation I had with him and his comments last week about her telling him to take money to repay himself. His tax bill is because he got caught working under the table and he got hit with taxes penalties and interest of $40,000 or so he claims. I know for a fact he was stressing over money since April. But we know him too well. If she told him to take the money, he would have taken it right then and there. Not 2 hours after she died! He would taken it and paid the IRS to avoid more penalties and interest!

If he taken the money before 6/1, we would have had to let it go. We wouldn’t be able to prove she didn’t tell him to take the money and it would have been a civil issue so we would have had to hire a lawyer and it wouldn’t have been worth the money. That it happened the day she died, which I had been siltently hoping for all week, maybe it’s a sign that she’s still here with us, protecting us. She was a devoted mother who always protected her children. There was nothing she wouldn’t do for them.

Deanna thank you so much for the lovely poem. I really needed to hear those words today. I’m not so much hurt like the others are but I am angry and having trouble understanding all of this and how God could allow something to happen that could destroy the family! My MIL wanted us to stay together, to become closer. She was the one who kept us together all these years. She would be devastated if her kids stopped being a family now! I don’t understand how we got to this place where something bad has happened that could destroy relationships forever. My young nephew has lost both grandparents now (he has no relationship with his mothers parents, one is late stage dementia, one is just not involved). He was very close to them too. My BIL has to be the bad guy and tell him he can’t see his grandpa anymore. My SIL now has to face what her father figure did and how it has angered her brothers. I know she still wants to give him the benefit of the doubt and not lose that relationship and I don’t blame her at all. My husband ultimately has to deal with this and face anger from his sister if things get really ugly. He has be the one to ask for the money back and to pursue criminal charges. He has to face the fact that the first thing this man did when she died was help himself to her money! At first he was really upset because he thought the money was taken before he called my SIL to tell her mil was gone but he made the call to SIL sometime between 7-7:30, she called my husband at 7:30 and the money was taken at 8:07.
And now I have to drag my parents into this too! He is supposed to be going up north to visit them in the next week or 2! He told them this at her funeral and he told me again on Sunday, that he was going to call my mom and let her know when he’ll be there. So now I have to call her and tell her what he did. I worry because my parents are old and naive, I love them but they just can’t say no to anyone and I don’t want him going up there and playing the victim, making my husband out to be some horrible unappreciative monster who had no right to take the money back and con them into giving him money! He is a smooth talker, a con artist!

Pepsee I’m glad my story has been helpful to you! I’ve been following yours & I’m rooting for you! I may not have much advice because im not a caregiver situation with my parents (yet) and this is a learning experience for me & I don’t know how to handle these kind of things myself and how things work.

My husband went and spoke to MILs partner tonight. It wasn’t as dramatic as I expected. He didn’t give me a complete play by play. Her partner gave him 3 different excuses for taking the money-that it was the car she gave us, that she told him to take it and he couldn’t remember the 3rd reason. I asked if he asked him why, if she told him to take this money, why he waited until she died and he said that he said he was going to wait until Fathers Day to take it. That doesn’t make sense to me unless he assumed my husband wasn’t going to touch her personal accounts for awhile. He’s full of it. How are you going to log into the bank 2 hours after the love of your life dies, transfer $20,000 and then go down and withdraw the cash within minutes of the mortuary picking up her body and then say she told you to take it? Anyway.....my husband told him there would be repurcussions if he didn’t return the money and there is supposed to be a $20,000 check for him to pick up tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully he follows through and the check is there and we can move on from this.

I just attended an Elder Abuse Symposium with a former San Diego Prosecutor who led the Elder Abuse department as keynote speaker. He said to ALWAYS call the police and the county district attorney. Just be aware that the police may tell you it's a civil matter but it isn't. This is a criminal matter. They will prosecute with or without permission from victim & family. This is a criminal matter.

WorriedinCali — watch your back. He could do a lot to get even. He decided that you and your family were a soft target and he still thinks that. Because you haven’t called the police or a lawyer. If $20000 is nothing to have bad feelings about I envy you. That’s a lot of money and he stole it from your family.

He’s a sociopath. This was all planned. A sociopath can smell money and weakness. And then they pounce.

He needs to be in jail.

Well my husband IS the police but what scares me is, MILs partner is his successor trustee. If anything happens to my husband or he becomes incapacitated or his siblings have him removed for any type of wrong doing, MILs partner becomes trustee. So for this reason I am going to insist Thanh a police report is filed. That way if something happens, my BIL and SIL can get him removed as successor trustee asap. There is a clause in the that that says that the trustee can be removed in the event if THEFT. So we have proof he stole $20k on the day MIL died. I don’t know about having him arrested, if it was up to me, he would pay back the money today and we would go to the police and press charges (and it would be up to the DA to file charges) and we would evict him from the house if possible. I know my BIL wants him out, so far the only way we can do it that I have found, is if he is collecting rent from MILs brother who lives there. He is not allowed to rent out the house so we might be able to use that clause to get him out if he is collecting rent. I know he agreement when MIL died was that he could stay and he would pay some utilities, I don’t know if he was to keep paying rent to MILs partner. My SIL still wants to give him the benefit of the doubt and said “is the money really worth damaging relationships?” And that he is the closest thing to a dad she has ever had and he has done a lot for her and always treated her like his own kid (truth be told, for the 20 years I’ve been in the family he has treated her way better than his own kids and I’ve always thought it was all part of his scam. My SIL is the youngest and MILs favorite and I’ve known this Guy was a con artist and a shady character from the very beginning). Anyway. I don’t think she would be on board with having him arrested and evicted. It’s ultimately my husbands responsibility and decision and right now I think we are a point where, if he gives us a check for $20k today, we have to now consider the stakes and how far we want to to take this and who is willing to jeopardize relationships. I reported him for IHSS fraud for the 2nd time yesterday. They did not investigate him when I reported it a year or 2 ago. I filed another online report yesterday. I will call tomorrow and try to talk to a human being. I think he should face all the consequences possible myself but like I said, I can’t call the shots here.

Today I am angry. There is validity to the suggestion/comment that we are taking our anger out on him. Well I do admit I am angry. Today I keep reflecting on how he just gave her stuff away and sold some of it. He told me a few weeks before she died that she was upset because he was getting rid of things already and she told him not to get rid of her stuff until she was gone. A week or so after that conversation he started giving me pictures whenever we would go over there and when I expressed concern over this and reminded him that he asked her not to get rid of things, he said “that’s why I have the bed at an angle. So she can’t see anything”. Her bed was in the living room and a few feet to her right was the hallway with the bedrooms so he had her at an angle so she couldn’t see things being removed from the house! He was able to take things down the hall and into the kitchen without her seeing t. Anyway he told me he was going to have my SIL and her husband come with their trailer the day after she died and haul a bunch of stuff away because he wanted it gone. And I asked him to please not get rid of anything until her kids had a chance to go through it and take what they wanted. I told him I understood it would be hard to stay in the house surrounded by her stuff and all the memories but just give her kids a little time to grieve and then come over and go through everything. And he didn’t do it. She died Friday and on Monday morning my SIL went to the house to pick a dress to bury her in and he has already donated most of her clothes! The only things he kept were a few nice dresses and an expensive leather jacket he says he bought her. And never mind the fact the trust says he gets a life estate and can use all household items while he lives in the house and that her personal items were left to her kids! So legally, ethically and morally he is in the wrong for doing this. And what is really ticking me off is that the day she died, he played the victim and told me not to take her death out on him and cut him out of the family because he & I had never had any problems. Really? Really? Hours after he helped himself to her money, he is telling me that?

I am relieved that you feel comfortable enough to come here and express your anger and frustration at the situation. I would be angry too if someone was removing items from my MIL house while she lay dying. And barely left enough clothes to bury her in.
I am so sorry that you are having to go through this experience.

Thank you very much Deanna. I appreciate your support!

Poop hit the fan again tonight. We went to the house to pick up the cashiers check and it was there. As my husband was walking out the door, MILs partner told him there is still a credit card out there with a $4000 balance & that it’s for her burial plot! My husband gets in the car and he comes running to my door and says Hi and tells us that the house is being tented in a couple days and it’s gojbb to cost $270. After we drove away my husband said something is going on, he is up to something again and he had me text his sister to tell her he was going to call her in 20 minutes and to answer the phone because he he is 2 seconds away from having MILs partner arrested! My BIL was waiting at our house because he had his paperwork filled out for MILs retirement and my husband told him everything. We were all told by MILs partner back in May that her cards were paid (she always paid them off monthly never carried a balance). So we pulled up her bank accounts and unfortunately on Monday night we did not look further than April 2017 and tonight we found that he took $14,000 in mid March! So his excuse for taking the $20,000 was that he sold his truck and turned around and paid $20,000 to Honda for MILs car. When she did the trust and everything was discussed, he was to get a $40,000 charger it’s not in writing but she gave him her other car and it was because he had helped pay for her car that she was now giving to my husband. So back to tonight....my husband calls him and he’s on speaker phone so my BIL can listen and my husband asks him about the $14,000 transfer from MILs account and he said she gave it to him for the Honda. And that he was there with lawyer when she said this. And my husband called him on it and said no, you got the dodge. She never said you were getting any money. He claims they did everything 50/50 but the bank accounts tell the true story. They did not. He did pay for part of her car-the car was $33,000. She bought it in January 2017 and put $5000 down. She paid it off in december and through out the course of 2017, he transferred $14, 510 to her account in monthly payments and every transfer was made just before her car payment was made. So he paid 40%. The dodge he got is currently worth around $25,000.

So my husband put fear in him. Told him he’s ready to have him arrested. He doesn’t know that there is only enough evidence to have him arrested for the June 1 theft. But my husband told him he doesn’t believe she gave him the money and the car and that he needs to make this right. He says he doesn’t have the money anymore, that he paid it to the IRS. They discussed my husband giving him the Honda back and taking the dodge. And her partner said he will pay the credit card bill. my husband has already spoken to a lawyer and now it’s a matter of deciding whether or not to hire him and pursue this further. And feeding whether he will be arrested or not. My SIL still isn’t convinced he’s a bad guy, I understand she considers him her dad but what he did is royally effed up. And he’s telling bold faced lies. All he did tonight was lie lie lie! So things are not good right now. My BIL is very upset and my husband is angry. And this is gonna put them both up against their sister.

Blimey, Cali.

Would it be an idea to get an accountant to do an audit? I don't know, but I'm guessing there will be some, or maybe bookkeepers, who do neat tidy double entry summaries for families for a modest fee.

I mean, part of the trouble, it seems to me, is that you're (you plural, not you personally) expecting this chaotic old boy, who whatever you think of him has just lost his partner and is bound to be upset anyway, to provide a coherent financial narrative for several months past; and then getting annoyed and suspicious when he can't, or anyway doesn't.

I just wonder if it might be helpful to have an objective, disinterested person go on a fact-finding mission and take it from there. The aim after all is to end up with everything tidy and sorted, it isn't to hunt down a criminal.

I don't know about that CM. Someone who transfers 20k from his ladies bank account, while her dead body is still laying there in the next room, doesn't seem to confused about finance's to me. And mil was on to his antics.

I think it's more complicated. But in any case, whatever ensues, it's still going to be helpful to have the numbers worked out and signed off by somebody qualified, no?

I bet there's more to the financial abuse than 20k, but the kicker is that you can't get blood from a turnip. If he's broke, at least he could serve some time.

My concern is the life tenancy. You all need to have a good attorney look at the document that grants this and see if it's able to be challenged - in other words, an attorney who is not with the firm that drew up the document. There may be a clause in there about if there is *proven financial abuse or criminal action*, the life tenancy is terminated. That would really push me to get a criminal action moving forward so you don't have to deal with this man forever. He will destroy the house.

My best friend growing up loved her daddy very much. However, when she turned 21, she found that not only did daddy spend her whole 10M inheritance but that led to the police finding out he had embezzled from his company as well. He spent time in jail. She was disabled, thus granddad left everything to her to pay for her lifetime of care. Since then, she's been on medicaid and disability, and amazingly, continues to talk to her daddy even though she hates what he did to her. Your sister can work through her issues too.

surprise, Thanks for bringing that up. MIL partner has "life tenancy" for the house. So the family can't just tell him to leave and then expect him to do so. They are going to have to legally FORCE HIM OUT. I agree that whatever attorney the family hires should not be employed by the firm that drew up the document. GREAT POINT!!

I also think that it is a good idea to have an impartial accountant review your MIL's and MIL's partner's finances. There could easily be more going on than what you see.

It took my Dad 2 years after his Mother's death before he uncovered all of the banks that his Mother (my Grandmother) had had accounts at. By the time he was done, he discovered that my two cousins had "sweet talked" Grandma out of thousands of dollars.

Countrymouse, an audit is a good idea but we don’t have enough of a paper trail. We have bank statements so we know what she paid for and we know what the joint account was used for. But she had credit cards. We can see the payments made on her bank statements but we don’t know what she charged on the cards and it’s reasonable to assume that he used her cards. His job situation over the last 10 years might have prevented him from getting credit. There were a few months where one of her card payments was $1000-$3000. It’s reasonable to assume that the months where her payment was larger are the months her mobility scooter were purchased (he had the nerve to say he bought it and he tried to sell it as soon as she died) and some BOSE equipment they purchased last summer. And he spent thousands on car parts for his car.  I do know that HE had PayPal Credit and she paid the bill, it came out of her personal checking account. My MIL didn’t buy things online and he is the one who would shop on eBay for comic books. There were a few months where $550 went to PayPal credit. He has destroyed all her cards (or so he says) and knowing him the statements were destroyed long ago. So we can’t prove any of the credit card charges were his purchases. He claims they did everything 50/50 but they didn’t. Sometime last year towards the end of the year when she had a drastic decline, is when he got in the habit of withdrawing cash as soon as he got paid. Every time a $587 IHSS payment hit, he took out $595. 

I don’t believe for one minute that he is upset and grieving my MIL. If he is so upset why did he log into her bank account 2 hours after she died and take $20,000 and then withdraw the cash just minutes after the mortuary took her away? Why did her get rid of 90% of her stuff within 2 days of her dying? He also had a water softener installed within days of her death, and made arrangements to have the house tented. (And that is costing $2700 not $270 like I said earlier that was a typo.) She’s been gone 3 weeks now and he already went out and got a job. And he wasn’t too upset to submit another month of false hours to IHSS either! It’s funny, her ex husband came out in May to visit and she allowed him to come over and see her. after he left, he was bothered by the fact that all her partner did was talk about her death and he said it seemed like he was counting down the days until she died. Now I don’t know about that because the longer she lived, the longer he lived the good life. Looking at her bank statements, he started withdrawing all his monthly income around November, October is the last time he transferred money to her and November  is when the Dr said she was end stage and wouldn’t make it to next Christmas. Seems to me that’s when he went into panic mode and started planning & hoarding his money. 

We think he didn’t pay off the $4000 credit card because he wanted the money. We ran her credit and there is a card with that amount owed. The plot was purchased on 3/3. 10 days later he took $14,000. She paid her tax bill that month too. If he had paid off that card in april, like he was supposed to (using her money of course), it would have drained her personal checking account because of his $14,000 transfer in March. And when she died, and he took the $20k he probably planned to take all along, she would have had just $2,000 in her personal account and he had to have know that would be a red flag. At the end of the day, he was never given or entitled to $34,000 and a 2014 Dodge Charger. She gave him the car and my husband and the lawyer were present when that was decided. It was around 3/14 when the rough draft of the trust was sent over by the lawyer for MIL to review and the day we reviewed it, they had a disagreement about paying for the funeral, about which account the money would come from. I don’t know how she expected or wanted it paid, but he saw a statement for an account she had with my SIL and when she told my husband it was to be split 3 ways, her partner got agitated and said “I thought we said the money for the funeral was going to come from that account” and she got visibly agitated as well and said “no. I never said that. You said that”. He started to argue but quickly shut his mouth. But the bottom line is, the $4000 charge was in early March and in May he told us he paid everything off and cut up the cards and he told my husband the same thing on June 9th. He didn’t just forget about this outstanding bill. He purposely didn’t pay it because he planned all along to steal $20,000. If he paid paid the card off in April when he was supposed to, she would have had $15,300 left. If he paid it in May, she would have had around $18,000 left. But by not paying it, the day she died she had $26,400 and he was able to take $20,000 and he probably assumed that $6400 left in the account was enough that no one would question anything.

So he called my husband earlier this morning and said he gave MIL $14000 in January 2017 and sure enough there is a $14,000 deposit into her account. But that still doesn’t mean he had the right to take the money back if she never told him to. My husband is working today so I don’t know where we are at now. Looking over her account, it looks like she paid all the Bills and credit card bills, all he paid for was gas and small incidentals. He transferred money to her but only through October 2017, and she was paying a bill of his and the money he transferred didn’t always cover that bill. Sometimes it covered a little more than that bill but it’s clear as day, things were not 50/50 like he claims. She was paying for everything.


Also I forgot to mention, MILs partner made a comment to my husband yesterday when he picked up the cashiers check, that he has an appointment with a lawyer! My husband didn’t ask about it so we can only assume what it’s about. My BILs wife and I think he’s going to see about challenging the trust so he can get more money.

Worried, that is fine. It gives you an “agent of service” to send the civil suit, eviction notice, etc. be careful he doesn’t claim they were secretly married and that ALL is his

I do agree that a different lawyer than the trust attorney needs to be involved and an accountant should look over the accounts. Right now it’s a matter of whether or not it’s worth the money. There is around $50,000 cash now that the $20,000 was returned. But it gets tricky because $12,600 is in an account that has all 3 kids as beneficiaries so all 3 will be cut a check by the credit union. My SIL now legally owns another account with $12k but she knew her mother’s wishes and she is going to put into the other account. So that money doesn’t belong to the trust and my husband can’t hust take it. And there is one more account with my husbands name on it too and while legally it’s his now, he is NOT and will not keep it, that account is what has been used to pay the last of the funeral costs and it will be used to pay for the headstone. IIRC it had around $12k when she died and it might have $7-$8,000 after the headstone is purchased. My husband is going to keep some money in that account as a reserve to pay any taxes she or the estate owes next year, as well as the property taxes and insurance should those be defaulted on.

There is nothing in the trust that says he can be evicted. It just says he can’t bring a non-blood relative and he can’t rent it out and that he is responsible for maintaining the condition of the home and paying the taxes and insurance. So again if the majority wants to evict, they have to hire a lawyer so again it all comes down to the money. Do we want to fight him on the principle of it and spend all the money on legal fees and potentially lose it all and lose the case as well as sever family relationships ? Or do we want to accept that he stole the money and just put it behind us and try to move on. I’ll be honest. If I was one of her kids, I would say let’s move on and forget the $14k. Have him charged with the $20k theft even though he paid it back. Because we can prove he took it after she died. We can’t prove she didn’t tell him to take the $14k. I’d say Let’s keep a close on eye on him and document everything & let’s forget the $14k and try to get passed this bump in the road. I would also hold the fraudulent IHSS over his head, i’d Tell him he needs to resign immediately or we turn him in. FWIW, I turned him in for the 2nd time yesterday but I know they aren’t going to investigate him. My husband and his siblings will be the ones to discuss any actions and how far they want to take this and they will decide what to do.