The emotional blackmail that goes with the enmeshment keeps the inslavement chained

Also, in stating that I had been effectively barred from my mom in her last month of life, this led to her and me not having closure with one another before she died. And, even though an Arizona assistant atty general (who threatened me with criminal prosecution on the basis of my dad's lies to her about me) and the staff at a memory unit where my mom was placed were aware that my mom was on her deathbed, none of them had the decency or respect to contact me to inform me that my mom was on her deathbed. As a result of my dad using me as his scapegoat and lying about me, I was treated as though I was a criminal and not even a member of my own family. So, from this pain I've learned alot, unfortunately the hard way. And in sharing this, I hope that it will save others posting to this thread the heartaches of dealing with NPD parents.

I've been reading the latest comments in this thread. I think that the reason some of us feel that we owe it to our parents or that it's our place to take care of them in their old age is because that was the way it was done in their generation and in their parents' generation. The other part of this is that in our parents' generation, kids were seen as possessions, not so much as individuals with their own ideas. So, our parents' generation believed/believes that they can treat their kids disrespectfully because the kids are non-entities to them and have to obey their parents throughout their lives. There's also the belief in our parents' generation that kids of all ages owe their parents for all they had done for us. Sadly, when you're so enmeshed with someone with NPD and are so engaged in your family's dysfunctional dynamics, you become blinded to the fallacy in this belief and don't realize that not only is this flawed but that you're being manipulated into believing this. My NPD dad didn't respect me as an adult and looked at me as still being a child whom he could use as his scapegoat and treat anyway he wanted and I would have to put up with it. In my young adulthood, I went along with this while my parents were paying for my education. But, as the years went on, I started to push back on their belief and it caused some problems between my parents and me. Unfortunately, I didn't establish strong enough boundaries when I was in my 20s and was too enmeshed in my family's dysfunction and my dad's manipulation-- all too late. If I had established my boundaries and demanded respect as an adult from both parents way earlier, things at the end of my parents' lives may have been alot different.

Taylorsmom mentioned that her mom has started to take on many of her dad's narcissistic behaviors. I saw this to a degree with my mom before she became demented. But, I can't categorize my mom's behaviors before her dementia as being narcissistic, per se, or at least not extreme.

The other thing I learned from a family dynamics class I took almost 3 years ago is that every member in a family has a role and that in a dysfunctional family, those roles aren't necessarily very functional. So for example, in my family my mom was the chief enabler of my dad's NPD and evil behaviors-- she always sided with him and made excuses for his horrible behaviors with the skewed belief that she was being loyal to him. I've learned that my role in my family was the scapegoat. From a young age, my parents blamed me for being the cause of many things (not having more kids, not living in England for a year when my dad had an opportunity to teach in a school there, etc, etc, etc). As is common with many of those who have the role of scapegoat in their families, I diffused it with humor. I've now come to realize that I was my family's scapegoat even into adulthood and up to the time of my dad's death. His using me as his scapegoat for his not taking on his responsibility to take care of my mom when she became demented led to some hassles with and false accusations by the legal system in my parents' state (Arizona), had a profound negative effect on my mom (she starved herself to death), my being effectively barred from my mother in her last month of life, and my having to sever my relationship with my NPD dad in the last 1 1/2 years of his life at a time when a person in their 90s needs the support of their family. But, with the ramifications of my dad's betrayal of me, I finally put my foot down and set a very strong boundary with him. I decided that I wouldn't allow him to either use me as his scapegoat anymore or to treat my family and me with the disrespect he had been showing toward us for so many years.

I've also come to realize through the family dynamics class and almost 3 years of therapy that my NPD dad was mentally abusive toward my mom, sister (now deceased) and me throughout our lives. While my mom assumed the role of "the boss" in our family and in my parents' relationship, I now realize that this was just a front to try to protect herself and my sister and me from my dad's mental abuse. In the end and over many years of having to put up with my dad and his evilness, it wore on my mom mentally and physically and had very negative effects on her in her later years. In the last 20 years of her life, she complained about my dad to me several times, told me she couldn't stand him, but wouldn't leave him out of a sense of loyalty-- but, I think that this is part of my dad's mental abuse, the manipulation associated with NPD, and the hostile dependence between my parents.

So, for those of you who are dealing with an NPD parent, my advice is to set very strong boundaries, not allow yourself to be manipulated and treated with disrespect, and not allow yourself to believe that you owe your parents anything or have to obey them. Remember, that if you are not legally acting as their medical or financial power of atty or aren't legally their guardian, you have absolutely NO legal obligation to help your parents. And, if they start to cross the line by contacting authorities or the staff at their facilities or their doctors and portraying you as mentally abusing them or meddling into their personal and business affairs and finances, my very strong advice is to run, don't walk, to the nearest exit and sever your relationship with them, even if they are elderly. Just because they're your parents doesn't mean that you have to become their scapegoats or be treated like crap by them. And, someone with NPD is very resourceful at finding some other sucker to help them out. Believe me, I've been there, done that with my NPD dad.

Taylor's I'm, what God wants is for us to honor our parents. It does not say obey. I think when we start looking at what honoring our parents entails within the parameters of a functional or dysfunctional relationship, it makes all the difference.

My mother was a narcissist (now deceased). She tried her entire life to isolate me from everyone so I would be solely dependent on her and play it to everyone that I was the good daughter. It's a true story and I can give countless examples through my life of this.

But the thing to remember when dealing with a highly dysfunctional relationship is to find the boundaries. Those boundaries will not only be Biblical (if you believe that - hopefully) but will also provide you an emotional safety for you.

When my parents finally ended up in assisted living, I still had to work with doctors and staff, but I did it behind the scenes. Mom got worse with me over time and even staff heard her call me all sorts of names, then in the same breath about what a good daughter I was. Ha! She hated me more than she loved me.

The boundaries were for my safety emotionally. For example, I never stayed more than 15 minutes with her at any given time. Sometimes even that was too long. Doctors and staff could not say they had talked to me because she became so defiant to her own detriment. When she wished me dead, I realized that I could not get blood from a stone and she had no emotion and I had to stop thinking of her as my mother and a person who was just so hurt on the inside, she knew no other way and I had to forgive her. That was the hardest, but it allowed me to love her as a human being, not as my mother.

I also have to say I've been with a counselor for about 20 years to deal with a lot of it. The counselor helped me with processing all the emotions, deal with how to respond and not react. They taught me what my trigger pints were because mom surely knew how to get my goat and that happened in other areas of my life thanks to her.

So it's not an easy process, but it can happen. You just have to find how the boundaries work best in your life. Yes, I'm an only child and yes, it really sucked during those years. But now I live free from that emotional bond and so glad I don't have to deal with her anymore. Bad? Well only if you didn't know her and the horrible things she did.

Taylorsmom Your advice is the same as a very close friend who begs me to get a social worker involved. I know her and how she maligns me. This would be an opportunity for her to turn "the system" against me. I'm in survival mode for both of us. Rude, disrespectful, and mean...that about sums it up.

I use to also think it was my place, especially as the only child, to see my N parents through their later years if not for me but because it would be expected of me by God. Well even He knows our limits and when it began to effect me mentally and take my own inner peace away (where He is) I put my foot down and said a stern "no" to being a guinea pig to dads condescending words and belittling behaviors toward me. I listened to him do it to my mother my whole childhood, and if she wasn't going to stand up to him, I certainly would. She has taken on many of his N behaviors now sadly, but I have refused to see or talk to him for a year now, but hear from my cousin he talks about me like I am the most naive person he knows even though I have outsmarted him in many arguments. I do speak to mom but she has formed it in her mind that I do not want to see her so she will not visit, which I never said. They live in their own world, don't take care of themselves, take their Meds wrong, think they know everything, and never-ever listen to what I say. Why would I have anything to do with someone who doesn't listen to me, blood or not. Regardless of being parents, they are people who are rude, disrespectful, and mean. They do not build me up, support me, encourage me, or want to be a part of my interests in life so why do I want to be a part of theirs. When one of them passes away, the state will take over, or one of the "friends" who are always better than me they think so highly about.
Save yourself ATL and the life you have left and live it for God and not for your mother. He has more for you than that. If you don't feel peace and happiness then God is not in it.

Cmagnum you are right. I did kind of make a vow to myself though that I would take care of family before all else. I've raised kids that weren't mine and taken care of elderly in there final years (aunt & dad). I do it because I could not claim to be a Christian and not take care of my own family, but also because I love them. Mom is hard to love. Some days impossible. Those days I do it for God. So to me it kind of is a vow that I would feel worse breaking.

Only1ofme I know what you mean about people who don't get it. Plus the Ns put on such a show for others. My ex boyfriend said he didn't actually get it until one day he pretended to leave but didn't. As soon as he shut the door (but remained inside) she tore into me in her most denigrating tone. He said it made him feel sick and he never looked at her the same. He got it after that but now he is gone. This site has been good for me. Starting to set some boundaries. One of those is she must talk to me like a human or I will not respond.

allthatsleft,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's not like your commitment is some sort of vow. You can change your mind anytime. You are might young still to be putting your life on hold for who know how long with years of not working plus who knows how much of your own money to live on after she dies and you reach retirement age. I'd look for some other way to get her cared for.

ATL. She is capable and YOU take her to get nails and hair done.

I would not hesitate getting 1200 miles away or even more! The further the better. I am done with four years of caregiving. I don't know how long you have been there, but don't wait to get to the point I did.

Best case would be my own place near her instead of with her, but I can't afford to do that while being available to watch her almost around the clock now. A couple of times a month she "is able" to get me to take her to get her nails and hair done if she knows company is coming. She looks so capable on those days!

I know cmagnum. I've been reading. I always thought my sister would be here to do this. She was 6 years older, "the good daughter," and she never left the old neighborhood. My parents thought I had a lot of nerve moving 2.5 hours away. I tried to get mom to move close to me when her health started to fail and I was doing 2 round trips a week. She said, "You moved I didn't." I guess I've committed so I'll just have to see it thru. Her dr said he will sleep fine at night regardless because he told her what she needs to do. Good for him.

Allthatsleft, have you tried to put a bit of distance? I still cope with it, and keep more to myself with my mom's dramas, but a lot of people bring up boundaries here. A lot of these parents want you to just do their bidding whenever, and never mind your life or what you want. I got tired of the stuff with my mom.
My mom has literally called and threatened to kill herself if I didn't bring her a carton of cigarettes within 30 minutes (on a day when I was at work). I work at home, so I quickly took off, citing a minor emergency, mostly because I was mad, got them at the 7-11 and dropped them off and went straight back home. But I was so mad about it. I wish I'd have said, call the cops and say you're going to kill yourself because your daughter wouldn't get you cigarettes. See what they say.

Sorry to say this, allthatsleft, but you were groomed by your parents for this role.

Read up about the narcissistic parents from articles on this site using the site search and other sites online.

When it comes to a narcissist, it is doubly impossible to get them to take meds or anything else that they don't want to do. Narcissists don't change either no matter how much you sacrifice for them or give.

Take care of yourself for a narcissistic parent sure want and will not support the idea or the practice of your doing so. Good luck!

It's hard to break contact with a parent. I haven't talked to my mom for more than two months and I'm having a big guilt trip about it right now.

I know her neighbors are watching out for her, and she likes them, but I still feel like, am I abandoning her, you know? Am I doing the right thing?

With mental illness you can't change them unless they accept the therapy/medications/etc., and with dementia you can't do much except change what you do ... So where does that leave us?

I feel like a jerk sometimes for not being there for my mom or checking on her, but just as strong is the pull to not make a phone call and be accused of stealing a stuffed animal from her or for whatever imagined crimes I've committed against her that she can dredge up that day?

I feel like it's not my job to make her happy -- she should have hobbies and so on -- but I do sometimes feel it's my job to make sure she's OK. That she has food on her table, gets her meds, that she hasn't fallen. Instead I stick my head in the sand!

It's not easy. They enslave you whether they're there or not!

I was an only child and my mother tried to manipulate my life to get me solely for herself. I mean she sabotaged my friends (I didn't find out until way later in life), she tried sabotaging my marriage and distanced me from family and the list goes on and on. But I always fought for my independence and we NEVER got along. But taking care of a narcissist does not mean that you lose your life, your identity, who God created you to be. Honoring your parents does not mean being enslaved to them. Once you learn that there is freedom in boundaries, your life will be so much better even if your parent(s) are still miserable.

Too late to resume relationship. He had been wanting me to move 1400 miles away for 2 years. No end in sight. Decided I was never going to move regardless. My grown kids are here. It was causing our relationship to deteriorate even with frequent month- long visits here.

ATL, wow we all give things up to care for our parents, that is a given. But a chance at a new life of ease? I would not have been able to pass that up. Since there is a caregiver living there, couldn't you get on with your life? Would it be too late to lay claim to that new life?

Many families are in the position that there is only one left. It doesn't matter if they are only children or one of many. The one that provides the care is the only one left, IMHO. I have two twisted, narcissistic sibs that live within twenty minutes. I provided care for mom with dementia and her hubby for nearly four years with very little assistance or time away. An outside caregiver was used near the end of the four years as the twisted ones refused to make adjustments in their lives to make life easier for mom or me.

No regrets? You don't regret the story so far?

The right thing to do, I get. I understand that; I'd even go so far as to say I hope you get the peace of mind you deserve in return.

Whether it's a fair thing, a reasonable thing, the best thing for your mother, for you, for anybody else who might have got caught in the crossfire..?

I am all that's left. It is the right thing to do. I figure it will pass and I'll have no regrets. She is making it so much harder than I expected. I'm new to this narcissist knowledge. I knew they were selfish alcoholics. I didn't know about NPD.

Allthatsleft, you say "...I have left my own home, broke up with my wealthy boyfriend who wanted nothing more than for me to be with him in another state, lost touch with all of my work and volunteer contacts,…"

Why did you do that? What persuaded you to?

I am the 50-something daughter of two alcoholic narcissists who were so self-absorbed and into each other to have much to do with my sister and I. We pretty much raised ourselves. Their relationship was turbulent and often violent. My sister was older and left home at a young age leaving me home alone with them. My sister was my mother's golden child and I was her black sheep. She was jealous of me since puberty, and when not distant, mean and nasty. My sister was murdered by her husband at at 39 and I was all that's left. That's actually what my dad kept calling me. He has since died. I am now living with my mother and her caregiver and have had my life on hold for almost 2 years. She is in her 80s. I work from the time I get up until it is time to sit with her and watch TV (I HATE TV) for a few hours at night. She is bossy and nasty and judgemental and tells herself that I am there because I need to be. I have left my own home, broke up with my wealthy boyfriend who wanted nothing more than for me to be with him in another state, lost touch with all of my work and volunteer contacts, and I cannot work now that she has progressed to the point where she cannot be left alone over night or even for more than a few hours now. She barks at me like I am a disobedient servant. She won't listen to her dr about her meds, about not using steps, about using a walker and a portible pot on one floor, etc. She keeps the house so hot I can barely stand it and she know it. Her house her thermostat. I have to pay for storage to keep my things that I want close to me. I am only allowed the space that is my bedroom. Everything else in storage even though it is a 3-story 3-bedroom house. The basement is a club basement that is not used any longer. She never cared where I was when I was a child as long as I didn't bother them at the bar. Now she feigns complete anxiety every time I leave the house. I am at witts end, but most of all I am worried that she doesn't listen to her dr. I can't make her take the meds the way he prescribes. I cant' make her stay on one floor. BTW a few years ago she fell down the steps drunk and broke her neck! I've paid for Life Alert for a year and she refused to use it! Only a week ago after falling did she finally agree to wear it, but now I am always here and can't leave anyway. Her stubborness will only cause her a lesser quality of life and perhaps shorter. I do not know what to do! She has severe COPD and bad circulation in her legs and is going blind. She is in her 80s. Any advice on how I can make her take her meds and do what the dr says to do. She actually thinks she knows better than him!

Removing the disorders? Clearly they aren't related to anyone with said disorders!

It is true that a bit of narcissism is healthy.

I cannot understand why Narcissistic personality disorder was slated for removal from the lates edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, published in 2013. There is an article about this on PsychCentral. Evidently, four other personality disorders were in the shakeup too — Paranoid, Schizoid, Histrionic and Dependent Personality Disorders. Only Schizotypal, Antisocial, Borderline, Avoidant and Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorders remained.

Personality Disorders Shakeup in DSM-5

psychcentral/blog/archives/2010/11/30/personality-disorders-shakeup-in-dsm-5/

Here's the full article from the NY Times.

nytimes/2010/11/30/health/views/30mind.html?_r=1

Reading down the list of comments to the article on PsychCentral, I saw

It appears that the APA has reversed their decision to drop NPD from the DSM V;

dsm5/Newsroom/Documents/DSM-5-Revisions-for-Personality-Disorders-Reflect-Major-Change-.pdf.

PsychCentral has its own personality test with 50 questions

psychcentral/personality-test/start.php

I think I saw one for Narcissism as well.

The politics of the mental health world is terrible like the rest of the scientific community!

Below is the guy's (website) who wrote the book ( I haven't read it) and he has a 'test' that consists of maybe 12 questions that will tell you whether you are 'healthy
narcissistic or not healthy.'
drcraigmalkin/the-book
( Maybe HE has the personality disorder?)
I read that NPD is being taken out of psych books as they do not now consider it a
disorder. I can't believe it - I just had a run in with a psycho in the theater biz who tried to destroy me when I stood up to her and refused to admire her in the way she was accustomed. No way is that normal behavior!
(Seems to me that this behavior is at the bottom of ninety percent of relationship problems.)

Regarding that book, a bit of narcissism is healthy.
Children of narcissist parents have to learn that. I've had to learn -- and am still learning -- that it's okay to do things my way and to not worry about mom's opinions.
My mom got a manicure last summer and suddenly she started telling me how I ought to do my nails. I just shrugged and said, you do your thing at the salon and let me do mine at home, since I love doing my nails.
But it's little things like that, you know.
They can't take anyone not doing things how they think they should be done. I'm trying to learn that I don't have to take doing things how they think they should be done. Ultimately I've got to go to bed and wake up happy. I'm not responsible for anyone's happiness but my own. I owe my husband love and respect, etc., but I don't need to wait hand and foot on him and turn myself inside out to make him happy, and I shouldn't have to for my mother, either.

LivingSouth,

What is the name of this book and who wrote it.

The main thing I note is "has a pseudo scientific 'test' "

There's not a standardized test for diagnosing personality disorders that a person can take. Narcissists don't see anything as being wrong with themselves and like borderlines can wear the right mask that makes them appear normal to a therapist in the short term and particularly one with little experience. While narcissists don't normally show up at a therapist's, therapists often run when a borderline comes in. Before they were better understood and given the label borderline, we use to just call them plain mean. Anyhow, most borderline men are in prison, most borderline women constantly fill our psych wards for a short term stay at the hospital, and some of the more high functioning ones end up in surprising places that we would only expect a healthy person to be in like a helping profession. It's a complete mess.

The shocking thing is that there is a new book that is claiming that being this way is actually healthy behavior, and the author even has a pseudo scientific 'test' that you can take to see whether you have these characteristics.
My mother briefly went to a therapist who told her to 'stop worrying about what other people think' and she only went about three months. When I was a kid I found a paper where she had written down that I was the problem... I think that it does run in families - and she claims that her mother was not affectionate with her, and I suspect she feels that she was the unexpected baby as well. It's not that I don't sympathize, but just because your parents didn't treat you the way you expected, does not give you the right to demand that everyone constantly cater to your whims.
And I remember her telling me this when I was a child - like I was the one wanting special attention. When I would complain about something, I was told that it was a little fizzle - but when she was upset, it was important.
So now here I am looking after her and my enabler father. If I am doing everything for her, that means that my dad does not have to do anything to placate her. (It has affected my other relationships because how can you trust people when you can't even trust your own family?)
Perfect set up, right? For everyone but me.

Sadly narcissists probably don't see anything as wrong, or can't stop focusing on themselves long enough to find anything wrong except with how they think others treat them. My mom, a classic narcissist, actually once decided to go to therapy, and went for one session and then refused to go back because she was too well known in her small town and thought the therapist could not resist gossiping about her. I told my mom the therapist risks losing her license if she does that, but my mother insisted she was too famous. Who could resist talking about her?

Smartgirl50, I'm not sure by the sound of that statement if you have ever had to deal with a true narcissist. It's not as simple as that. First of all, they are not slave drivers and beating their child into submission. It is a finely tuned perfection of manipulation and can even occur with a smile.

I don't think I know anyone who has had a true narcissist in their life, knows one that has recovered. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it. The thing is they don't care about anyone but themselves. Narcissism is a mental disorder. But a narcissist does NOT give a rip how or what they do to get things their way and they are damn good at manipulation.

When I finally realized after decades and being married what was occurring in my life, I went back throughout my childhood and went "Oh my God!" She tried getting me to divorce my husband. She was trying to turn the one friend I had on me, so I had to rely on her. She tried keeping me from jobs I wanted because it inconvenienced her. She wished me dead at one point because I wouldn't come through a tornado storm and sit with her. I could go on and on. But I didn't do all the work. I had my husband and a life. But at every opportunity she would try and make me feel miserable about it, but I never accepted it. NEVER!! Probably why we never got along. But growing up, she was still my parent. I learned certain things and patterns of behavior I have had to work hard to break. However, the caregiving part was part of the command to "Honor your mother and father...."

But by that point as a caregiver, I had boundaries in place and I knew how to work them well. She was in Asst. Liv. God was I grateful for that!! But your perception that we are tied to them 24/7 like with autism, etc, but there is something different that occurs. It is emotional bondage. For some people it is a lot more. But to hear you say they can unlearn it.... clearly you have not experienced a narcissist first hand. BE GRATEFUL!!!!